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Author Topic: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)  (Read 3989 times)

Aloarjr810

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League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« on: August 14, 2012, 09:08:45 PM »
Well we had the meeting for the winter season tonight. Heard a new one.

Somebody was Trying to change the vacancy score. Vacancy score has been 140 for men or woman for years.

They want to change it to 120 for women and 140 for men. I was thinking what did we go back in time 20-30 years. Okay that didn't pass.

Then they said blind score is persons average minus 10 pin okay no surprise there.

But then someone say's that the vacancy score should be minus 10 too! Say what?

That went to a vote didn't pass.

Then for the last half of the rules,they say their in the usbc book they don't change
and just blew them off.

And we won't mention how the league will have a 4 player roster team with a 1 player roster sub.

99% of the people there were not listening at all, just standing around talking.




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milorafferty

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2012, 09:13:47 PM »
Sound about like every league meeting I have been to.
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trash heap

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2012, 10:40:00 AM »
There are leagues in my area that still use that 140 for men and 120 for women absent score. I was in one of those leagues for many years, tried to get it changed every year. It never got to a vote.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2012, 10:50:52 AM »
I'm a little confused with the unhappiness on the absentee score .. can someone clarify why there is dissatisfaction with the 140 or 120/140?
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Spider Man

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2012, 11:34:01 AM »
I've usually seen 150 for men or Avg - 10.

Spider Man

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2012, 11:35:43 AM »
well, 150 minus 10 would give the 140...

Aloarjr810

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2012, 11:46:33 AM »
I'm a little confused with the unhappiness on the absentee score .. can someone clarify why there is dissatisfaction with the 140 or 120/140?

I don't remember if it was in one of the old rulebooks or from the rules dept.

But it said A Vacancy is a gender neutral position holder, so it's not a man or a woman. Also if you look in the rule book about vacancy scores, they just show one set score for a vacancy.

Also what would be the point of having a male and female vacancy. There would be only a 1 or 2 pin difference in the handicap score.

Example using a 90% of 220:
a 140 male would have a 72 pin handicap, which give you a 212 hdcp. score
a 120 female would have a 90 pin handicap, which give you a 210 hdcp. score

That's only a 2 pin difference

Now another league here use's a 0 vacancy score but it gets handicap.
0+198= 198 hdcp score.
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trash heap

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2012, 12:07:46 PM »
It should be the same. Why should it be 20 pins less for a women, it makes no sense. These are scores used when a there is no substitute to be found.

In the leagues in my area there is no handicap calculated for absent scores.

In my opinion an absentee score should be a set score with no handicap. Example: A 4 person mix league with handicap set at 90% of 220. The Absent score should set at 180 (remember no handicap). That gives the team with the missing player still a chance to compete in the series. They are down 40 at the start of the each game, but if they bowl well and the other team doesn't they should get the points.

In my local leagues they are down 80 (men) to 100 (women) per game. A big task to compete being down that much in a game.

Problem some around here they can't stand to see a 180 score on the screen replacing a person with a 150 average. They never think of handicap.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 12:11:25 PM by trash heap »
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Aloarjr810

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2012, 12:31:30 PM »
It should be the same. Why should it be 20 pins less for a women, it makes no sense. These are scores used when a there is no substitute to be found.

Your talking about absentee scores, their not the same as Vacancy scores.

As for no handicap for a absentee score, I don't think you can that in the USBC rules
You can do it for a vacancy score though.

105/6 Can a league adopt a rule stating there will be no handicap given for a vacancy score?
Yes, the league can adopt a rule restricting handicap for a vacancy score. While USBC
recommends that the vacancy score receive the same handicap percentage the league utilizes
for its regular members, Rule 105, Item d allows the league by rule to determine the percentage
of handicap the vacancy score will receive.
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trash heap

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2012, 01:48:22 PM »
Quote
Rule 105 – Absentee and Vacancy Scores
Leagues may adopt rules for absentee or vacancy scores and handicaps to decide league games, subject to the following:

a. Absentee or vacancy scores may be used only when a legal lineup is present.

b. Absentee or vacancy scores may not replace scores bowled by an ineligible player.

c. In a singles league, no vacancy scores shall be used. Absentee scores will not be permitted, unless otherwise provided by league rule.

d. A vacancy score is to be used when a team has an incomplete roster. Vacancy scores are subject to the following, unless otherwise provided by league rule:

1. Adult leagues:
a) The vacancy score shall be 120.
b) In handicap leagues, the handicap must be based on the vacancy score used. Handicap shall not be limited.

2. Youth leagues:
a) The vacancy score shall be the average of the lowest average bowler on the opposing team’s roster.
b) If two or more vacancy scores are required, the average of the next-to-the-lowest bowler on the opposing team’s roster shall be used for the second vacancy score.
c) In handicap leagues, the handicap must be based on the vacancy score used. Handicap shall not be limited.
d) The vacancy score is used until an individual bowls and establishes a current average.


e. An absentee score is to be used when a member is absent and a substitute is not obtained. The following provisions apply unless otherwise provided by league rule:

1. The absentee score for each game shall be the absent member’s current average less 10 pins. In handicap leagues, the handicap shall be based on the absent member’s current average.

2. Teams with additional players on the roster shall use the absentee score of the absent player with the:
a) Most games bowled.
b) Lowest absentee score when the absentees have the same number of games bowled.
c) Next highest number of games bowled when two scores are needed.

3. When a team has an absent member without an established average according to league rules or USBC Rule 118c, a score of 120 will be used. In handicap leagues, the handicap shall be based on the score of 120.

You can change it to want ever the league wants it to be.

As far as Vacancy Scores. It should not hinder the team at all with one less player. The vacant score should be no less than 10 pins of the league's handicap base. If the league's handicap is set to 90% of 220. Then the vacant score should be 210 (no handicap) or 120 (with handicap), its the same number either way. The team should be able to compete.

But again. People like to twist numbers. They find that one or two scenarios that they got beat real bad by a team with one less bowler (eventhough they bowled terrible), and turn it into the norm. 
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Jock

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Re: League meeting tonight (Bowlers gone crazy)
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 09:48:33 AM »
I'm a little confused with the unhappiness on the absentee score .. can someone clarify why there is dissatisfaction with the 140 or 120/140?

I don't remember if it was in one of the old rulebooks or from the rules dept.

But it said A Vacancy is a gender neutral position holder, so it's not a man or a woman. Also if you look in the rule book about vacancy scores, they just show one set score for a vacancy.

Also what would be the point of having a male and female vacancy. There would be only a 1 or 2 pin difference in the handicap score.

Example using a 90% of 220:
a 140 male would have a 72 pin handicap, which give you a 212 hdcp. score
a 120 female would have a 90 pin handicap, which give you a 210 hdcp. score

That's only a 2 pin difference

Now another league here use's a 0 vacancy score but it gets handicap.
0+198= 198 hdcp score.

Sorry.  My deleted comment referred to an absentee score and not a vacant score.  I've been bowling a loooong time and I've NEVER come accross a vacant score situation.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 09:53:11 AM by Jock »
Ive upped my average, so up yours!