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Author Topic: Velocity redrill  (Read 4007 times)

qstick777

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Velocity redrill
« on: May 05, 2005, 04:15:13 PM »
My Velocity is currently drilled "stacked leverage" but I'm not getting any desirable reaction.  I don't think this layout matches my style (~14.5mph, ~210-225 revs, sorry but don't know my PAP), so I'm thinking of plugging and redrilling.  Any suggestions how to lay it out?

I'll be using it on THS, probably for last game of leagues (dryer lanes, or more carry down).  Would like more of a skid/flip reaction (my Nemesis is drilled 2E for nice smooth arc, but would like to have a different reaction to play around with).

 

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 12:41:40 AM »
Really?  I was under the impression that the Velocity was not good for oily conditions.  I'm not getting any reaction from the current drilling.  Not sure if it is hydroplaning, burning up, storing energy, or what, but it basically just goes straight, so I need to do something.  I was told that I don't want to have a weight hole in this ball (currently it does because of legal weight issues), so I don't know if the core, my style, and this particular drilling just don't match up ???

Burak Natal

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 04:24:07 AM »
Hey qstick777,

First, If you don't know your PAP, how can you know it is drilled "stacked leverage"? It is more than likely a stronger, early roll drilling by the explanation but you should know your PAP to get better help.

I had drilled two of them for me. Actually Pat has drilled one of them for me. I've tried different covers and drillings. For me it is not an oil ball unless you manipulate the cover a lot or you have tons of hand. It covers wider range of mediums nicely depending on he drilling.

It is an asymmetric ball. Therefore, placement of the Mass Bias is important on the reaction. Where is the MB in your Velocity?

Without knowing your PAP, axis rotation and tilt, even without watching your game, it is too hard to give proper advice.. However:

I would place the pin around 4 to 4-1/2 inches from PAP and at least 4 inches from the midline. This will give enough flare potential and high pin position saves most of them for the backend. From my experience, weaker pin placements more than 4-1/2 makes it go too long. Even with a slow speed. The cover is so clean..

Place the MB half way between VAL and your thumb hole or a bit closer to your thumb.

If you will play on carry down, you may need to put a strong xhole, down your PAP on your VAL. You have to check with statics first ofcourse.

Finally, adjust the cover for fine tuning.

Hope this helps,
Burak
Regards,

Natal
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qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 11:59:56 AM »
Thanks!  I'll give that a try.  

When I say I don't know my PAP, I just don't know where it is, have never asked my driller, and haven't quite figured out how to find (read the stuff on the ball sites and Storm Tracks page, but can't quite figure it out).  My driller said he was going to drill it aggressive and then said it was stacked leverage.

Pin is to right of ring (slightly higher), CG is directly underneath, and MB is directly underneath CG (slightly below thumb and maybe 1 1/2 - 2 inches to right of thumb) - sorry don't have any pics available at the moment.

I would say axis and tilt are maybe in the 30-45 degree range.  I haven't quite found a consistent release - it seems to change from week to week.

Very poor video of me throwing this ball is here: http://www.dipspit.com/qstick777/throw2-1.avi - poor refering to the quality as well as my effort!  (I was just throwing some balls to keep the muscles active, and it was recorded with a digital camera - I haven't gotten the stuff to pull the vids off my MiniDV yet).  I put a piece of tape from the weight hole to just over the fingers (I assumed that maybe the weight hole was on my PAP).

charlest

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 01:03:02 PM »
If your tilt is in the 30-45 degree range, you're a spinner.

FYI Tilt and rotation are 2 VERY different things.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 02:23:36 PM »
quote:
If your tilt is in the 30-45 degree range, you're a spinner.


Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about!  I just throw the ball and try to knock down all the pins!

I guess I could be a spinner, but I track pretty close to both my thumb and fingers.  I never seem to have anything to measure with when I go practice (or I forget the printout explaining how to figure out everything).

My problem is my usual driller isn't located on the lanes, so I can't go throw a couple of balls and get his opinion and let him see what is happening.  There is another driller at some lanes further from my house, so I may go to him to have this plugged and re-drilled.

When I took the velocity back to my driller his response was "I'm not familiar with that ball, but thats the ball you wanted me to order.  I had another customer come in with that ball and tell me it was junk.  I can try and make it work for you, but you're probably wasting your time."  So, I put it away for the past couple of months, but I'd like to do something to make this ball work for me - I paid too much to let it sit in the garage.  

This is my first performance asymmetrical core, so I was starting to think that maybe my style matches up better with symmetrical cores (Spike, Hammer, Nemesis).

Burak Natal

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 02:38:56 PM »
qstick777,

Velocity is definitely NOT a junk! One of the few balls I liked from many that I have tried lately..
Asymmetric balls give wider range of versatility in terms of drilling, reaction and matching up with different styles, BUT ball driller must know what he/she is doing.

If you would like to have more help, just pm Pat Nolan. I'm sure he can help much better..

Best of luck to you..
Burak
Regards,

Natal
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qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2005, 03:54:19 PM »
Well, I had been talking to Fig way back when I was first having problems.  He seemed to think that I should've gotten the TNT (I thought that since it was particle it would be good for oil, so I really felt deceived by the advertising), and was going to sell me a TNT at a steep discount (really it was only slightly less that if I had purchased from buddies, but would have helped off-set the drilling costs) if I couldn't get the Velocity to work.  Several messages were left, but I never got a call back to make the deal for the TNT.

I ended up getting a few other balls, and Nemesis seems to work really well for me, but I'd still like to get some use out of the ball and get a different reaction.  I've heard good things about the ball, and I love the look, so I want to give it another try.

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2005, 09:30:02 PM »
Here is a pic of my velocity.  Pin and CG are circled.

http://www.dipspit.com/qstick777/Balls/velocity.JPG

and here is a pic of the Nemesis: http://www.dipspit.com/qstick777/Balls/nemesis.JPG

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2005, 04:57:01 PM »
Took the ball to a different pro shop today to have it plugged and re-drilled.  Since the shop was in the lanes, the guy had me throw the ball and see what was going on.  Lanes were really dry and I was able to get maybe 3 boards out of the ball.  He took it and measured the side weight.  Turns out the ball had a full ounce of side weight.  I guess maybe that is too much for my style, so he took out half an ounce (I checked USBC and current regulations allow for 1 ounce so I guess technically it was a good drill ???).  Threw the ball a few more times and got maybe 7-10 boards, so I guess it was the drilling.

I'll play around with it little bit more when I have time to get to the lanes and really throw it, but I'm happier now that the ball is at least giving me some sort of response!

And since I was still "on the clock" I didn't even think about asking the guy what my PAP measurements were.  I'll get those when I take my next ball to him for drilling.

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2005, 04:27:53 PM »
Pat, I appreciate that, and I realize it wasn't stated in this topic, but I had already tried to adjust the surface of this ball - 1000, 800, and down to 400 grit wet sand.  I still couldn't get this ball to move for me.

I posted here (not sure when, I couldn't find the thread) and on the AMF forums(dec 04), and that is what was originally suggested - play with the cover and see if you can get any movement.  Well, at 400 grit I was able to get a few boards. If I really cranked it (by "no-thumbing" it) I could see it turn the corner, but that isn't my style and thats how I believe I originally injured my arm and the reason I moved down to 14lb - Velocity was my first ball at 14lb (after throwing a 14.5lb for a while).

I didn't put it in this post because I had given up and was going to bite the bullet and pay to plug and re-drill.  I figured that it was drilled far too aggressively for my style and lack of "hand."  My pro shop offered me $20 for the ball, and I was able to get an offer for $40 shipped from a few users here.  This is a ball I paid $190 + tax + inserts for (early X-mas present to myself) and I just couldn't bear to eat that much of a loss - I would've rather let my 2 year old push it around the driveway, at least I would see him getting some enjoyment out of it!  I was more willing to throw another $40-50 into it than just give it away.

Having done all that, when I threw the ball yesterday, the guy could see it trying to turn.  On bone dry lanes I was getting maybe 3 boards.  He wouldn't come out and say that I didn't have enough hand for that drilling, but taking out 1/2 ounce of side weight made a considerable difference.

He did say that that since it is a particle ball that the reaction would be more arcy than flippy - I still find it humorous that people say its a particle ball but it only has .25% particle.

Anyways, I never really thought it was the ball, and I guess that is what I get for using a driller that has never seen me bowl and is not located on the lanes.  He never offered to do anything for me other than buy it back (for $20) and sell me something different (he is big on Ebonite).  I told him I wanted something aggressive, and he drilled it according to the layout sheet.  Think I'll be going back to him to drill my Changeling?

My only issue was that it was advertised as a particle ball and I needed something for oil (max velocity wasn't out yet, and my red hammer wasn't cutting it on my fresh league shots) and I wanted a "pretty" ball (so TNT wasn't an option).  Since the website describes the ball as  
quote:
Velocity
This combination of all new cover and core is our best to date. The new Velocity core gives you symmetrical predictability with enhanced mass bias performance. Surround it with our new Mach-1 Particle coverstock for a reaction that's super clean in the front and truly sideways on the back for incredible entry angle.



I thought it would be good for oil (and hook rating of 55 compared to 57 for TNT) - that was my only issue with the ball and lack of reaction.  I thought I was buying a hook monster and got a really good spare ball!

I agree that coverstock is the most important factor, but I think I could've taken it down to 80 grit and still not gotten a decent reaction with that layout and my low rpms.

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2005, 02:07:05 PM »
I finally had a chance to try out the Velocity yesterday, and I'm much more satisfied with the reaction now.

I bowled 6 games.  123, 212, 204 = 539, and 196, 178, 166 = 540.  I know that's not good to most of you, but keep in mind that I'm a 163 average bowler.

My first game I started off trying a different wrist support (older one from last year), but realized it just wasn't comfortable, so that contributed to the low 123 score.  I don't usually bowl more than 3 games, so I was really started to get tired after the 3rd game.  My left thigh and knee were getting sore (1 day I will remember to stretch before bowling!), and after the 4th game my fingers were starting to get sore from the inserts.

I found the best success playing 15 out to about 5, but had a couple of shots that played 12-10 out to about 1 or 2 and still came back and carried.

I don't know if its the ball or the house (don't bowl there very often) but the pin action was amazing.  I was getting all kinds of messengers and trips, and carrying some stuff that never should've carried (I'm talking missing the pocket completely - hitting 3 and still getting 9 pins down!).  I start my summer league in that house tomorrow, so hopefully this ball will be successful for me!

Here is a short (one throw) video - just messing around with my new camera: http://www.dipspit.com/qstick777/velocity.wmv


Edited on 5/23/2005 0:53 AM

qstick777

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2005, 10:44:14 AM »
Ha!  Used the ball in leagues and shot a 577 series.  I guess I'll be happy with that for now.

JOE FALCO

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Re: Velocity redrill
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2005, 11:06:37 AM »
I have a VELOCITY .. agree with you that it's a great ball.

My problem is that I picked up a number of AMF balls recently and have slowed down on the bowling for the SUMMER and I'm not getting a chance to use all of the purchases.

I think you will enjoy the ball hope it improves the average 10 points .. have a feeling it WILL!

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