Ball Fit

[bowlersam]

Hey. I'm new to Bowling. From a place where no Pro Shop or coaches available so I learn bowling from forums and by watching YouTube videos and try to apply what I learn.

Average is 165, we don't have league play or books. It's from the record I keep. May be off by 5 pins plus minus.

I've read that one can not out bowl a bad fit and that may be my case as I fitted my self through the advices I received on different forums.

So in a nut she'll, life has given me lemons and I'm making lemonade.

Came here in hope to get some better advice. The forum I was at for last few months has a fitting system designed by Mo Pinel. But pros there are not as helpful as I would like them to be. A slight deviation from the norm and they act like I had committed a sin.

Anyway. Long story short. I need advice in fitting department.

My specs so far as I have done them myself to the best of my humanly abilities are as follows. I'm a righty by the way with dry skin and a little less flexibility than I wanted to have. My MF bends to 80* RF to 45*. Thumb doesn't want to go back beyond 90*. On a Coke Can I fall between index and MF and when I let thumb bend towards palm (I put a tennis ball on the floor, picked it up and then let it slip and allowed my fingers and thumb to meet) my thumb hits the fingers between MF and RF, don't know if this information would help.

PAP 4 and 7/8 over 1/4 up. Have no Armadillo, so I marked the first ring nearest to finger holes and brought it to horizontal and marked the top of ball. Don't know if that actually is my correct PAP, but I did my best.
Speed 14 mph off hand
Rev Rate 200 or so
Axis Rotation 45 to 55*
Axis Tilt 8 to 10*

Like to play up the boards and down and in.

I squeeze the ball. Tried not to but I do. I reckon it's because of bad fit but don't know how to correct. My fingers hurt and fingers and thumb have callouses. Over all, I'm in pain after bowling 6 games and can't bowl for next 2 days.

With minor tweaks, the pain has gone down quite a bit, but it's there, none the less.

My drilling specs are as follows.

MF 4 and 3/8, full Span, 3/8 left and 1/8 forward. Full span. Finger hole size 25/32. I started out with 11/32 but it's permanently swollen with callouses on both side of first crease.

RF 3 and 3/8 (Sarge Easter, developed trigger finger and can't go back to full finger tip in RF any more), 1/2 right and 3/8 Reverse

Thumb size 31/32, 3/16 Reverse and 1/16 Left. My non bowling hand thumb can fit in 27/28 easily, but bowling hand thumb is permanently swollen and has a bump on the first knuckle. Which I have to scrape off every week to keep it at little less in size.

That's my story in a nut shell.

Can I get some help please. I'm desperate to get rid of this pain in my fingers and hand.

As far as span is concerned, I have gone from 4 and 1/8 to 4 and 1/2. 4 and 3/8 seems much comfortable and Web around my thumb and index finger is taught but not tight. My nail hits the back of the Finger Hole a hair may be but not always.

Help please.
 

[bowlersam]

You are right about round thumb hole as I don't have access to Ovalmatic machine. And yes. I'm taping front and back of the thumb hole to make it snug all around.

It rubs on the upper left quadrant of the hole while exiting. Between 10 o'clock and 11 o'clock on the hole if you take center Grip line as 12 o'clock.

As far as fingers are concerned, yes, round holes there and no inserts. I have recently ordered VISE 7.5 Ovals on line and they will reach me in January when a friend is visiting. But for now it's Round finger hole and I don't tape it.

What I did recently is drilled a size smaller and then beveled the sides to make it somewhat Oval. It fits better now.

That is one of the minor tweaks I mentioned in original post.

Thanks both of you for guidance. I read Ron Clifton before. Many articles. Partially helpful was the about 6 basic fundamentals.

My quest continues.

[bowlersam]

I just have to ask....where is there a bowling alley in Pakistan?  Are there leagues?
You have a good grasp on understanding grip span, finger/thumb pitches, personal specs. PAP, axis tilt, rotation, etc.
I'm impressed, but again I have to ask where do you bowl locally?  You mentioned you drill your own equipment, but what do others do that you bowl with?

There are two alleys in my city. One has 12 lanes another 16. One has oiling machine, as old as my jig. Puts 18 ml to 40 feet, flat 1:1 from board 1 to 39. No room for error. Another puts oil by spray can and spread it with a mop. Quantity, ratio, who knows. Sometimes 40 feet, sometimes 45. Both oil 3 times a week. Once only each time.

Most players play with House Balls. Only 20 players Carey their own balls to the alley. 15 of them are C300 White Dot 10 and 12 lb and they play straight. Bought from Dubai and Kuwait mostly when these bowlers visited those places.

Others buy straight Chinese balls from a guy who calls his office Pro Shop. Then they get drilled on the same machine I mentioned by a guy who works as a lane man there. Basically what he does is fingers 3/8 both sides, thumb 0 and 0. Fingers 7/8 thumb 15/16 for every one, and brags that no one ever hung in his drilled balls. Some can fit both fingers in one hole as the holes are that big for them. No one bothers. They all play straight.

5 other guys have hook balls bought out side of Pakistan.

We have only one player who has scored a single 300 game in the entire country.

I hope that answers all your questions.

[bowlersam]

Take a look. This is the boy who scored first ever 300 game in Pakistan

[itsallaboutme]

Rubbing in that area is pretty common in that area when an oval thumb is coming out of a round hole.  You can take a bevel knife and with just a few scrapes you should be able to feel a difference.  When you do it take the knife down into the hole about 1/2" and give it a few scrapes at the same angle that your thumb comes out of the ball.  Just enough to get the edge off in that area, but not excessive.

The finger insert should help relieve the pressure on the sides of your finger as it will be oval shaped like your finger.  Don't be afraid to tape the finger hole also until you are able to try the insert.

[bowlersam]

Rubbing in that area is pretty common in that area when an oval thumb is coming out of a round hole.  You can take a bevel knife and with just a few scrapes you should be able to feel a difference.  When you do it take the knife down into the hole about 1/2" and give it a few scrapes at the same angle that your thumb comes out of the ball.  Just enough to get the edge off in that area, but not excessive.

The finger insert should help relieve the pressure on the sides of your finger as it will be oval shaped like your finger.  Don't be afraid to tape the finger hole also until you are able to try the insert.

Thanks. I'll try Bevel in the thumb hole next week end when I drill an old ball.

This sounds like help I was looking for. Thanks.

My goal is to get a good fit, to the best of my abilities, so I can send the spec sheet to Bowlingball.com Tony Ruuco to get my new Arsenal drilled with an oval VISE iT switch Grip. That's the dream.

But before I do that, I have to make sure the specs are as close to perfect as possible.

[itsallaboutme]

You may want to try to get ahold of some oval thumb inserts to try.  They will fit the shape of you thumb better.  They can be installed with either a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 bit depending on the brand and size.

Keep in mind if you are able to order and get some that the sizes don't correspond with the round size of you thumb.  You would need to go bigger with the insert size. 

[bowlersam]

You may want to try to get ahold of some oval thumb inserts to try.  They will fit the shape of you thumb better.  They can be installed with either a 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 bit depending on the brand and size.

Keep in mind if you are able to order and get some that the sizes don't correspond with the round size of you thumb.  You would need to go bigger with the insert size.

Can you provide a link to which company and from where to order on line. Thanks

[itsallaboutme]

I sent you a private message.

[lefty50]

+1 on the oval inserts. I tried one yesterday for the first time. I was ripping the skin a bit on the inside of my thumb. It was very simple to put in the oval insert and I threw the ball MUCH better. The stated size will change though, and that's a gamble... Just as a reference... I went from a regular thumb drilled with a 15/16 hole to an insert using 1-1/64. It's ok, but maybe even a bit snug. 1-1/32 would have been even better. I'm going to try it again in next practice and will convert everything if I have the same improvement in feel.
Also, I applaud your efforts to make this work with no help available. Please ignore some of the people on here who insist on a pro shop. Most of the people on this board are very blessed, and sometimes can't comprehend what it would be like to have to do this without the right facilities. There are others on here who will help you with general knowledge on things to try.. Cause and effect types of guidance. Good luck...

[WOWZERS]

Lefty with another pot shot at Rico and others. Can't let it go and no wonder why you are so despised. Maybe you don't realize this at your age, but you can reply without making a comment about others and just respond to the OP. Just like i would have if you didn't want to run your mouth again.


Back to the OP...when I first bought my oval thumb inserts/slugs...I still had to make minor modifications to the slug after installation. Very important to understand that installation is number one and super important as if the angle is slightly off from one ball to the other you are going to make more modifications to one ball than another. At least for me, you just do not install the thumb insert and off you go.

[Track_Fanatic]

I use the Vise V2 vinyl oval thumb insert with their 'angle right' tool which is awesome. Only issue with it is the vinyl insert is not as flexible to glue it in as other thumb inserts.

[lefty50]

Wowzers, why start something brother? Just focus on the OP, and help him. I can't imagine not having the facilities to go in for help, and yes, I do think we're all pretty blessed. If that one's a crime, so be it.
Sam, he's right. Gotta be careful on getting it to fit right, but I think they're great. I've heard they make both vinyl and urethane, and there's a definite difference in how quickly they release from your thumb, but I'd defer to others on that point. I've only tried the one type so far. It was a good thing to find out though.

[MI 2 AZ]

Bowlersam, since you are going to be installing finger inserts, here is a link to a video on installing them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5JpbdHWcGQ

[MI 2 AZ]

I never searched for this info before because I do have a driller I trust now so I leave all of that to him, but Innovative does have a series of videos showing their proshop products.  You may find some useful info in some of them (I did not watch them).

https://www.youtube.com/user/innovativebowling/videos

Which also begs the question:  What proshop tools do you have to work with?  Do you have a pitch gauge,  ProSect, ball spinner, bevel knife, etc?

Your use of the English language is impressive.

[bowlersam]

What proshop tools do you have to work with?  Do you have a pitch gauge,  ProSect, ball spinner, bevel knife, etc?

Your use of the English language is impressive.

I have Bevel Knife and Wax Pencil. Both bought on line. Nothing more.