What am I doing incorrectly?

[Jesus Quintana]

I rolled my first 600 series ever today (211, 211, 178), but in doing so, I noticed that about 75% of the spares I'm leaving are 2-5-8 or 2-8, which are kinda tough for me to pick up.  But since I'm leaving them so often, it must mean that I'm missing the same way most of the time.  What do I need to do to correct this?  Thanks...

[C300_Rye]

move back about an inch or two on the approach
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195 House Average

I use
Storm Vertigo
Storm Ace
Storm Hot Rod

Eye Of The Storm Member
Shop BuddiesProShop.com There the best

[boondoggle]

Are you right handed or left handed?  I leave the reverse (3/9) on balls that break late and come into the pocket very light, throwing the head pin straight into the gutter instead of back into the 3.  Like the previous to replies said, move back, move laterally, whatever you need to do, the point is to get higher into the pocket.

[bowlitup]

It also COULD be that you are getting too much deflection. i.e. Your ball is too light, or it has used up too much of it's foreward momentum at the time of impact. All of the above advise can help, but IF your ball is too light, then you will have to continually adjust to combat this. If not, then the adjustments on the approach will do. I had this same problem a couple of yrs ago. I was throwing a 13 lb. ball, and it just wouldn't finish(Travel all the way THROUGH the pindeck) strongly enough. The pins would deflect the ball to the right too much, leaving a bunch of 5's and 8's. I bought a 15# ball, and that cured it right up!

Keep in mind, buying some new ball is a complex and important thing for any bowler, and should not be taken lightly, especially for a beginner. And it is not always a quick fix, as sometimes a certain type of ball will tend to leave a whole bunch of DIFFERENT types of spares in the hands of a certain type of bowler.

Good luck, and Great Job on the 600!!! It took me awhile to get my first!(Not too long after I bought that 15 pounder though...hmmmm...something to think about!)

I hope this helps, instead of confusing you further.
Good luck and Good bowling!
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Ben
VIVA LA NACION!!!

[dizzyfugu]

Yup, it would be helpful to know what ball you are playing (type, weight, maybe reaction setup?).
When the 5 is standing very often, the ball is too weak and does not carry even on good pocket hits. Having 2-8s standing means deflection. Maybe you use a light ball (great control, but sacrifing carry and power in the backend), you hit the pocket consitently high (make some approach adjustments - either 1-2 boards to the right for a right-hander or, like Storm717 suggested, moving a bit backwards so that the ball holds its old line but can make a wider hook to get a better pocket hit) or your entry angle is weak (try playing a different line, either outside or inside, just to get the ball through the pocket to the 5 pin without deflection)?

Maybe this helps?
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DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe

[Jesus Quintana]

Thanks for the input.  Just to address some of these things, I'm right handed, and I'm throwing a Scout Reactive.  It's 16 pounds, so it's probably not that the ball is too light.  The line I'm most comfortable with is fairly tight--I'll usually put it over about the 8th or 9th board, then let it go pretty straight 'til it gets to the back end.  I don't put too many revs on it.  I've been throwing a hook for almost two weeks now, and as I've been progressing, I'm getting closer and closer to getting the axis of rotation that I want, although at this point I'd consider myself a tweener at best, and the revs are still pretty low.

I guess I'm generally coming in too light then, when I leave those kinds of spares.  Rather than go to these fixes right away, though, I wonder if it would be better to just work on making my release more consistent.  After all, like I said, I've only been doing this for two weeks.  It seems like when I do hit the pocket flush, I'm getting the pin action that I'm supposed to be.  I guess I can't tell for sure since it happens so fast, but it just kinda looks like all the pins just get swept straight to the back.

One more question...  How long does it take before oil carrydown becomes a major factor?  Seems like my scores always get worse as the night goes on, but I don't know  if it's because I'm tired or if it's the oil pattern breaking down and my ball not reacting the same.

[Jesus Quintana]

By the way, if 75% of the spares I leave are 2-5-8 and 2-8, the other 25% is the 10.  Does this mean anything?

[Constantine]

JQ,

Its difficult to assess your game without seeing you, but I do have some comments for your consideration.

Scout Reactive is weak ball compared to most equipment these days, so don't expect it to hook a ton.  It is a excellent choice for the beginning hook bowler, so I'm not recommending a change yet.  Work on a consistent release, learn to read the oil better, and work on adjustments.

Leaving the 2 pin definately means you are coming in too light.  The 5 & the 8 are also indicators of a light hit.  The 10 can also be left when you come in light and get too much behind the 10 pin.

Watch the 9 pin when you bowl.  If your ball hits it on the far left side on a good shot, then adjust your feet left a 1/2 board.  If your ball hits it on the far right, then adjust your feet right 1/2 a board.  If you didn't get the 2 pin, then move your feet right 1 full board.  (These are simplified adjustments, but they should work okay for your current skill level.)

As far as carrydown, it depends on the type and amount of oil, lane surface, balls used, etc.  The key thing for a beginner is to watch your breakpoint.  If the ball hooks later on a good shot, then adjust your target. On the typical house shot, you should find success by moving your target to the right, so instead of aiming for the 8th board, trying aiming for the 5th board.  The outside of the lane is dryer, so you'll hook around the carrydown.  If that doesn't work, then you can move inside, but you'll probably need to throw it slower to give your mild ball a chance to hook for you in the thicker oil.

So in summary, watch your target, breakpoint, pocket, 9 pin.
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Good luck & good bowling

[bowling9883]

Well I can't tell if your right or left handed. That would help if I knew. You are coming in very light in the pocket for a righty or you may not even get close to it. Try closing your shoulder.
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my high is game is 266 770 high series

[janderson]

It could be that you are simply missing your intended mark to the right or that you are not getting as many revs or that you are throwing the ball a little faster or any combination thereof.  There are many things that can cause your ball to come up "light".  The spares you are leaving do not necessarily indicate bad ball reaction or a bad selection of a line to play on the conditions.

The good news is that, if your reported stats are correct (75%/25% leaves), you're missing in the same direction when you miss.  It is generally easier to fix a single problem/miss direction than mulitple ones.

Have you considered enlisting the help of a coach?  Even a good teammate, someone who knows your game and will be honest with you even if it hurts, can let you know if you threw the ball faster or pushed it further out to the right, etc.
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Kill the back row (or maybe this should read "make your spares, dummy")


Edited on 4/15/2005 1:16 PM