Thanks Nick, I agree the 6th is doable, but I'm litterally tossing the gutter by the 3rd game and thats my issue. Taking hand out is not easy for me as I don't really hit the ball I just hold no pressure and let it roll so its not like I really try to rotate it. If anything I am at about 5/8 of my potential rotation at this point, I guess I need to just go back to about 1/4... if I can figure out what pressures give me that. ahh well I'll give it a shot tonight and see what happens.