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Author Topic: avalanche series  (Read 5685 times)

DON DRAPER

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avalanche series
« on: January 10, 2008, 03:01:54 PM »
i really never read the information on brunswicks website in too much detail about the avalanche series until lately. while skimming over the avalanche blue/silver pearl i noticed the comment made about "if your avalanche blue/silver pearl hooks too early it's at it's maximum length surface preparation. you will need to use a less aggressive ball to create more length". knowing most brunswick polished balls are wetsanded 400 grit before polishing it seems rather simple to sand the ball to a finer grit and then polish the ball if you want to add more length. brunswick goes into good detail about drilling patterns but only the bare basics on surface preparation. i can't speak for everyone else but i for one would like to see more detail on surface preparation on the website and the spec sheet that comes in the box with a new ball.
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YeahHossNV

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 01:50:02 AM »
honestly thats what I would make more sense. I think maybe Brunswick has to change their philosophy on grit before polish.

but also maybe the grit makes it maintain it's backend. Maybe increasing the surface grit would increase the length but reduce backend even more. without a thorough testing of the avalanche cover grits we will never know for sure.

Maybe even possibly the surface instructions are to prevent unexperienced buyers from taking the starting grit to high and complaining their ball never wrinkles.
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Edited on 1/11/2008 2:52 AM
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charlest

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 09:41:28 AM »
Greg,

Could it be that the Avalanche pearl is sanded finer than the stock 400 grit, before polishing??

I did that to a Slay/R a while back. I got its maximum length at about 1200 grit + polish. When I sanded it to 2000 grit + polish, I got no more length.
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BrunsNick

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2008, 01:10:19 PM »
The Avalanche series is Brunswick's first offering at the mid-low price point. Anytime you can get a premium coverstock for less, everyone is happy.
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crankncrash

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2008, 03:06:26 PM »
cool rockin daddy,


Yes that core is old and so is the cover, but there is a reason they are still used all over ( not that EXACT core but you can find it through all sorts of lines).  Just because its not new doesn't mean its no good.

Now let me pose this question to you, what kind of car do you drive?  If you drive one, you have a piece of nearly 100 year old technology under the hood.  Its pretty much the same thing you would find in a model A ford.  True there are newer "performance" pieces IF you can drive them to their potential or afford them, but the old guys STILL do the job well.  Now that said does any of this rambling matter? Nah, but I guess the point is, if its old its not bad in all cases.


As far as the ball being at its maximum length, I would guess its the abrasiveness of the polish making it at the longest the it can be.  Think of it like this, if the polish  is comparable, grit wise to a 1200 with something like a wax in there ( I know its not wax just hear what I'm saying) the grit brings anything above 1200 back down to it before shining the ball and brings anything else up to that grit.   I don't know what the compound is in there, but I know it has grit to it and will make anything pretty glossy even with minimal polishing, so I'm lead to believe that there is something there that adds shine without grit...  Anyway thats my .02
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DON DRAPER

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2008, 05:05:06 PM »
the surface of the avalanche is wetsanded 400 grit and then polished. if the surface was wetsanded say, 2,000 abralon and then polished, i would almost bet you would get at least 5 more feet in length----perhaps more.
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charlest

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2008, 05:20:43 PM »
crankncrash wrote:
quote:
As far as the ball being at its maximum length, I would guess its the abrasiveness of the polish making it at the longest the it can be.  Think of it like this, if the polish  is comparable, grit wise to a 1200 with something like a wax in there ( I know its not wax just hear what I'm saying) the grit brings anything above 1200 back down to it before shining the ball and brings anything else up to that grit.   I don't know what the compound is in there, but I know it has grit to it and will make anything pretty glossy even with minimal polishing, so I'm lead to believe that there is something there that adds shine without grit...  Anyway thats my .02


While the above may be true with Rough Buff which has abrasives in it, it is not true for their High Gloss polish which has no abrasives in it.
That's why the finer you sand it before applying High Gloss, the longer the ball will go, UP to a point. As I said above, I reached that point, for some reason at the 1200 grit mark for the Slay/R. I have 2000 and 4000 grit sandpaper, but it seemed to make no difference for me and my Slay/R.

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crankncrash

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2008, 08:13:48 PM »
There is no abrasive in the polish at all?  I find it wierd, but who knows... not me obviously
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BrunsBob

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2008, 09:00:56 PM »
Greg, in the past we have introduced new performance balls with the cover prepped with the High Gloss factory finish, but it has become apparent that this low-friction polish can make a NIB ball under achieve in most bowlers hands. We would rather the consumer have too much hook and need to adjust it rather than too little hook to start with. Sure, the High Gloss gives a ball better shelf appeal, but we don't want another Radical Inferno on our hands. That ball was good, just not effective for the majority of bowlers when used right out of the box. We won't make that mistake again.

I can see myself taking the Avalanche Pearl to 4000 and then Rough Buff to make it a little straighter than it's out of box condition in order to seperate it's performance even more from the others. It's all about matching those surfaces up "after" seeing what the ball does.

Regards,

  RoB LaW

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Edited on 1/11/2008 10:05 PM
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MegaMav

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2008, 09:14:17 PM »
quote:
Greg, in the past we have introduced new performance balls with the cover prepped with the High Gloss factory finish, but it has become apparent that this low-friction polish can make a NIB ball under achieve in most bowlers hands. We would rather the consumer have too much hook and need to adjust it rather than too little hook to start with. Sure, the High Gloss gives a ball better shelf appeal, but we don't want another Radical Inferno on our hands. That ball was good, just not effective for the majority of bowlers when used right out of the box. We won't make that mistake again.

I can see myself taking the Avalanche Pearl to 4000 and then Rough Buff to make it a little straighter than it's out of box condition in order to seperate it's performance even more from the others. It's all about matching those surfaces up "after" seeing what the ball does.

Regards,

  RoB LaW


RL,

Have you guys thought about going back to your roots?
600 Grit + Rubbing Compound? (Green Scotch Brite + Rough Buff)
its been killer for me, and the Danger Zone at that surface keeps killing em'
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BrunsBob

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2008, 09:23:00 PM »
Mega, we try to come up with a surface that gives each ball its best performance under normal conditions....AND.....is also easy to duplicate from ball to ball. Technology now leans more towards the use of Abralon type pads over Scotch Brite type abbrassives, mainly because the finish has a much better appeal to it (less sanding marks).  Both type abbrassives have their place, Abralons just make the ball look better on the shelf. Your working to keep a good surface on one ball that works for you. We have to try and create a surface that looks good and is easy to repeat on ball one off the production line and ball 1000 off of the line.

Regards,

   RoB LaW

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DON DRAPER

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 09:41:01 PM »
brunsbob, i understand what you are saying. there are times however when i see bowlers who are dissatisfied with a particular ball and are not willing to change the factory surface on a ball. many of these bowlers should know better. a little education thru trial and error is a wonderful thing----is it not ?
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MegaMav

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2008, 09:42:33 PM »
quote:
Mega, we try to come up with a surface that gives each ball its best performance under normal conditions....AND.....is also easy to duplicate from ball to ball. Technology now leans more towards the use of Abralon type pads over Scotch Brite type abbrassives, mainly because the finish has a much better appeal to it (less sanding marks).  Both type abbrassives have their place, Abralons just make the ball look better on the shelf. Your working to keep a good surface on one ball that works for you. We have to try and create a surface that looks good and is easy to repeat on ball one off the production line and ball 1000 off of the line.

Regards,

   RoB LaW


Thanks for the fast reply.
I've bought many Brunswick balls over the years, and whenever a surface doesnt matchup well for me, I default to 600 grit + Rough Buff. It seems to do the trick for ME at least, depending on the ball composition. I just wondering what has been talked about in meetings, if the revert back to that kind of surface matchup was discussed, considering some of the matchup complaints with the recent releases. It seems to date back to the Scorchin Inferno which was very surface heavy for most players on most conditions.

You answered my question, thanks for that.

Best of luck in this New Year,

Eric
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BrunsBob

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2008, 09:58:55 PM »
Greg, I think every shop should make an attempt to educate each customer about ball surface preperation and maintenance. An educated customer on average will spend more money, and usually feel comfortable letting you adjust a surface to match the ball up to their game. If a customer leaves the shop "expecting" the ball to do one thing and it doesn't, then you have an unhappy customer, until you convince them to let you alter the surface. Why not educate them up front before they get a bad taste in their mouth, many times not even giving the ball a chance, or even worse, thinking you sold them a dud, and even worse, telling others that you did.

Mega, we do in fact discuss every aspect of every ball during our meetings. We have to take into consideration what surface works best when matching cover to core on every ball, and where we want it to fit in our ball lineup. The 600 grit used in the past would have been done with abbrasives we no longer choose to use (at this moment). We can create the reactions now without having to sacrifice cosmetic appeal by using more modern abbrasive materials.

And by the way, don't think we don't recognize how good a customers to Brunswick you both are. Thanks for the support and patience over this past year and a half. We are making great strides and looking forward to a much better 2008.

Thanks again.

RoB LaW

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DON DRAPER

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Re: avalanche series
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2008, 10:10:43 PM »
brunsbob, i feel many full time pro shops do a good job trying to educate their customers in this regard. the problem is that there are too many part time pro shops who really don't know what they are doing.....literally. most of my education in surface preparation has come from trial and error. i've also read everything i can find on the subject. my pro shop operator thinks i'm a little anal when it comes to surfaces. he may be right but he also knows what i'm doing and why.
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