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Author Topic: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP  (Read 6490 times)

hotshot187

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BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« on: October 20, 2006, 05:54:55 AM »
http://www.brunswickbowling.com/bvp_mammoth

ITs up.  Take a look for yourself
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Noy

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2006, 02:12:38 PM »
video was very detailed, more so than the others.  Is it true that lower RG balls match up better to today's lane conditions?
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2006, 02:24:42 PM »
didn't appear to be finishing well at all on the last couple shots...the ball was inside some though

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agroves

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2006, 02:33:13 PM »
I can't wait, 6 months from now there will be tons of topics about how much this ball sucks.  It won't hook, my rampage outhooks this ball by 2 arrows....blah, blah, blah...

Anyway, it looks good, love the "rocket core".

Andrew
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shelley

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2006, 02:33:13 PM »
quote:
video was very detailed, more so than the others.  Is it true that lower RG balls match up better to today's lane conditions?


I don't know about today's lane conditions, but Brunswick's all but said that Activator doesn't match up well with higher-RG cores.  For the most part, the low-RG Activator balls (OI, UI, AI, ZC, SZ, and VZ) will match up to just about any bowler on most conditions.  The higher-RG balls like the Blazing, Raging, and Impulze Zone were very hit and miss.  Some people loved 'em, some hated 'em, some found them to be kinda condition-specific.  I think this ball is the same way.

The core looks a little like the Rule Delta One's.

SH
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Joe Jr

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2006, 02:33:58 PM »
I just realized this is an all new coverstock.
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BallsDeep

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2006, 02:44:09 PM »
Really good video.  It appears as though they took a page from Ebonite's book with the videos of the ball with a different coverstock finish.  Overall, though it looks as though its a great ball.  It looks to me actually like a higher hook potential Ambush.  

As for your question, Noy, yes and no.  They are basically saying that since lanes strip the lanes so often, many times the backends are fresh and thus, an earlier rolling ball, a ball with a lower rg, is more controllable, less jumpy at the breakpoint (as opposed to a ball that maintains a great deal of energy and releases it all at once).  

Also the Activator is a longer cover than the pk18, formerly on all BVP releases, and thus, they need a earlier rolling core to offset, somewhat, the late hooking activator coverstock.  We have seen examples of balls that have had Activator and elevated rg's in the Blazing, and Intense (+) and such a reaction doesn't work for a lot of people, and results in less successfl balls.  I'm personally mildly surprised that they went so considering that they are using a high load particle version of the activator.  Such is probably why the polished version looks a bit better than the sanded.

Saying that low rg's match up better to modern lane conditions is a little misleading though.  There are certainly places for elevated rg's, when the lanes break down, playing in friction areas, and a few other instances.  A lot of the focus on lower rg's has come from certain heavier lane conditions, in many instances sport shots and tournament shots also employ a heavier patterns, though they are not obligated to.  Also a shift to people employing more hook, has certainly made hooking balls greater commercial successes than less agressive pieces.
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BrunsMike

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2006, 04:20:38 PM »
I really like the look the Mammoth gave Billy once it was polished, looks like something that Id really enjoy in my bag but right now I am very happy with my current line up and I dont really "need" any more balls but theres always that Want sense!

I really like how they used several other balls from the BVP line to show the differences. If your looking to form a whole 3-4 ball arsenal with just the BVP series, THIS would be the time to do it.

If I did this it would go:

Mammoth (oob for heavy oil)
Mammoth (polished for med-heavy)
Rampage -or- Wizard (medium)
Punisher (polished for medium-light
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Mike Zadler

Gunny

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2006, 05:22:09 PM »
quote:
rolls better polished IMO, but it looks like a good ball.


I agree with you there.  looked alot better.
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cjh761

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2006, 10:35:19 AM »
no the rampage did its the best of the BVP series
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bowlingmytmouse

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2006, 02:20:49 PM »
I think that Brunsiwck needs to revamp this vid system...why??? It gives false impressions. It makes sense to someone who knows what they are doing, but not to the avg bowler. It looks like there is a long christmas tree pattern, but who would throw a low-rg particle ball on a christmas tree shot with such crisp  backends that were shown evident from the Rampage and Wizard?? Secondly, Who the heck plays with high load particle solids that deep?? Low RG particle balls are not going to give you the entry angle necessary to achieve flush shots on a consistent basis(proven by all the light shots in the vid). I am sure that there were a lot of weak 5 and 7's edited out by Big B.

My case and point is conspirator300's mentioning that the wizard now hooks the same amount as the Goliath. From the video it would seem that way, but it doesn't mean that. It means that the Wizard retains energy longer and can read the friction later whereas the energy with the Goliath is already exhausted. I'm not jumping on conspirator300 just stating what I see.  Brunswick is making their ball look bad, Joe Smoe will probally see the vid and think...why buy a Mammoth when the Wizard and Ambush are going flush and they are handling the same shot(amount of oil)?  When in actuality they aren't. The Wizard and Rampage got the condition they shine on, oily heads with crisp backends. One might argue that the Mammoth and Goliath got what condition they are made for oil, and that is true to an extent, like I stated they can handle more oil but won't provide a sharper entry angle to the pocket.

I think that the comparision videos need to use flat shots and have the balls played on the same line to get a real comparison. This vid didn't do that and I feel that it will actually hamper the sales of looks to be a great ball due to poor ball comparision.

BMM
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BackToBasics

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2006, 06:36:27 PM »
quote:
...but who would throw a low-rg particle ball on a christmas tree shot with such crisp backends that were shown evident from the Rampage and Wizard??


The Mammoth is actually a great matchup to this type of pattern.  If the backends are clean enough, the particle will bleed off enough energy to control the backends and give you the control.  High rev players, especially high axis players match up to particle when the backends are very clean.  The Purple and Swamp Monster were great pieces for this type of reaction.  

quote:
Secondly, Who the heck plays with high load particle solids that deep??


Where one plays on the lane is relative to the bowler and conditions and not to the ball type.  I've played 5th arrow with particle.  Why?  Because it was the best matchup.  Does it mean that particle is good for going coast to coast? Not really, but sometimes that's the best choice.  

quote:
Low RG particle balls are not going to give you the entry angle necessary to achieve flush shots on a consistent basis(proven by all the light shots in the vid). I am sure that there were a lot of weak 5 and 7's edited out by Big B.


??? Again, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about particle balls.  What does entry angle have to do with flush shots?  Particle is very good at getting the ball to slow down enough and transition to actually create better carry when the conditions call for it.

quote:
why buy a Mammoth when the Wizard and Ambush are going flush and they are handling the same shot(amount of oil)? When in actuality they aren't. The Wizard and Rampage got the condition they shine on, oily heads with crisp backends. One might argue that the Mammoth and Goliath got what condition they are made for oil, and that is true to an extent, like I stated they can handle more oil but won't provide a sharper entry angle to the pocket.


Why do you neccessarily want a sharper entry?  That doesn't always translate into better carry and scores.  Sharper breakpoints also lead to lane transition problems.  The faster the ball transitions off the spot, the harder to control.    The Mammoth is obviously handling more oil than the rest of the BVP line which is good for high speed/high rev/high axis players that need that surface to slow the ball down.

quote:
I think that the comparision videos need to use flat shots and have the balls played on the same line to get a real comparison. This vid didn't do that and I feel that it will actually hamper the sales of looks to be a great ball due to poor ball comparision.


It's actually a great comparison video.  It shows the oil handling capabilities of the BVP line and it also shows the benefits of having a high load particle ball.  What do you gain by having it on a flat shot where majority of bowlers don't bowl on a flat shot?  By lining up with each one on a typical house shot, all bowlers get a good idea of how each one reacts and they can choose the look they prefer most.  I really like the polished Mammoth/Rampage comparison.  It really shows the benefit of particle when blending over/under.

Edited on 10/21/2006 6:31 PM
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302efi

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2006, 07:58:33 PM »
quote:
... We were trying to design a particle that would/could still give the illusion of a reactive reaction in the back end, but still react in the oil....


Uh...MoRich already did this with one of your covers or a version of one of your covers...The ball is called Seek & Destroy


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302efi

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2006, 08:39:00 PM »
I'm not saying that MoRich used this cover, I'm saying they did exactly what you described this ball to do.

You said that you were trying to make a Particle that would react like a reactive and still move in the oil...Excatly what the Seek & Destroy does:

-Particle

-Hooks in oil

-Very angular

I understand that this is at a totally different price point though
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bowlingmytmouse

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Re: BVP MAMMOTH VID UP
« Reply #14 on: October 22, 2006, 12:01:09 AM »
quote:
The Mammoth is actually a great matchup to this type of pattern. If the backends are clean enough, the particle will bleed off enough energy to control the backends and give you the control. High rev players, especially high axis players match up to particle when the backends are very clean. The Purple and Swamp Monster were great pieces for this type of reaction.  


Let me correct what I said, why would someone use a high load particle when , they have a look like this guy did with the Wizard and Rampage. I agree particle pieces can and will tame down jumpy backends, but IMO the video showed that but at the expense of other balls shining. I think it would have been better to see a shot right behind the Wizard to show the taming of the backends.

 
quote:
Where one plays on the lane is relative to the bowler and conditions and not to the ball type. I've played 5th arrow with particle. Why? Because it was the best matchup. Does it mean that particle is good for going coast to coast? Not really, but sometimes that's the best choice.


But was this the best line with both the Mammoth and Goliath on this shot?? I think not. Had he not been playing so deep of a line, I think they would have shined a little brighter.

 
quote:
??? Again, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about particle balls. What does entry angle have to do with flush shots? Particle is very good at getting the ball to slow down enough and transition to actually create better carry when the conditions call for it.


Again, my poor editing skills, I did not mean that particle balls do not provide good entry angle. I was reffering to this shot and the amount of oil that was there. For the line that this guy was playing with both the particle pieces they could not provide enough entry angle into the pocket to create what I see as a high percentage strike ball.


 
quote:
It's actually a great comparison video. It shows the oil handling capabilities of the BVP line and it also shows the benefits of having a high load particle ball. What do you gain by having it on a flat shot where majority of bowlers don't bowl on a flat shot? By lining up with each one on a typical house shot, all bowlers get a good idea of how each one reacts and they can choose the look they prefer most. I really like the polished Mammoth/Rampage comparison. It really shows the benefit of particle when blending over/under.


Like I stated, I think that this will be a great ball, but for most, I don't think that the video will do the ball justice, but rather an injustice. Why do a highlight vid with a ball when all the shots come up light??? That doesn't make sense to me. A true ball comparision to me is what a ball will do when it is thrown on the same line as another. Now, had the video shown the Ambush and Wizard thrown as deep as the particle pieces and the particle pieces as far outside as the others, it would have been a great comparision vid. To compare, you must see them in the same situations.

BMM
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Edited on 10/22/2006 0:01 AM
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