Author Topic: Wicked Siege or Revolver? (Read 4015 times)

Pattayabowler · « **on:** April 22, 2011, 04:56:13 PM »

Hi,

I'm a retired Army guy now living in Thailand with a lot of spare time on my hands to bowl and am looking for a new ball. The Brunswick balls that I now have are the Evil Siege, C-System 4.5, Wild Thing, Maxx Zone, Sidewinder, Dry Zone and a couple of international models.

I'm considering either the Wicked Siege or the Revolver as my next purchase. I'm looking for a ball primarily for med/heavy oil that could possibly be used on medium conditions at times. A friend of mine has both, but recently got rid of his Wicked Siege. I don't know why, he tired several different drills on his Wicked, but he just couldn't get a consistent read on the ball. Maybe it was his style, low track, rev dominant versus ball speed, but it just didn't seem to work for him, however his Revolver rolls great for him providing that there is enough oil. He gets a consistent reaction until the oil dries up then it tends to dive through the nose. This ball has a very smooth reaction off the spot, continues to drive through the pins, handles carry down well and never seems to roll out. His Wicked didn't seem to handle carry down very well and always seems to be very over/under for him although he never tempted any surface changes on the ball.

I roll a medium track, maybe slightly speed dominate. I can play both inside or out, but prefer crossing the arrows between the 7 and 15 boards. I think, due to my speed, I can get make the adjustment when the lanes start to dry up on my preferred line and when that fails, I can move inside. I assume that the Wicked is supposed to be the better ball since it is in their Pro Performance line, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the best ball for the individual bowler. Both of these balls are priced the same here in Thailand so cost doesn't become a factor. Also, I'm not sure if I can claim the rebate from over here or not.

Which of these balls do you prefer? Which one is more versatile? What drillings and surface changes have you found work best for each of these balls?

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

RSalas · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2011, 08:05:52 AM »

I own both balls (two of each, in fact), and for me, the Wicked is cleaner through the front part of the lane, and stronger at the break. If I were to compare the Revolver drilled 5" above with the Wicked drilled 5" above by 60 degrees, in box finish, on a condition with more volume, I'd say the Revolver is a board or two stronger overall.

So I guess the question is how you'd want to play the condition. The Revolver is smoother from front to back, and thus it works better for me when I want to play a more direct angle. However, if I want to try to open up the friction to the right or in back, I'll choose the Wicked.

Actually, I have another question...between the Evil, Wild Thing, and Sidewinder, I'd think you'd have the wetter-medium-to-medium condition covered already. Have you tried changing surface on one of these to see if it would give you the reaction that you seek?

Ray Salas
Brunswick Amateur Staff
http://www.brunswickbowling.com

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #2 on:** April 25, 2011, 11:37:10 PM »

Actually, I have another question...between the Evil, Wild Thing, and Sidewinder, I'd think you'd have the wetter-medium-to-medium condition covered already. Have you tried changing surface on one of these to see if it would give you the reaction that you seek?

Hi Ray,

Sorry to get back to you so late; I was out of town for a few days unexpectedly. I have a lot of balls that I can go down and in with, but I tend to have a lot of difficulty getting a ball to make the turn and finish strong when I move inside to open up the lane on heavier oil conditions. I can get my Evil Siege to turn if I slow down my ball speed, but I think that it burns off too much energy because it doesn't seem to hit the rack with a lot of authority by driving through the pins. If I keep my speed up, it pushes through the breakpoint and hits the pocket light if at all. My Evil Siege is drilled pin down at 45 x 4.5 x 70. My Wild Thing rolls exactly how I like when I'm trying to open up the lane; it revs strong on the back end and drives hard through the pins albeit on medium oil conditions. I don't want to change the surface on it because I like it as it is for medium conditions. The Wild Thing will work on heavier patterns once they break down, but tends to get a little over/under; it is drilled 45 x 5 x 45 pin up. I've changed the surface on the Sidewinder, it has a smooth roll, but is a little overwhelmed by the heavier 42 feet pattern. Again, I can make it work if I really slow down the ball speed. My C-System 4.5 drilled 60 x 4 x 75, it came with a short 2.5 inch pin, just pushes through the oil, going too long and unable to make the turn on heavier patterns, another medium oil ball. I've thought about removing the rough buff and changing the surface, but haven't come up with a plan as yet.

As you say, I probably have enough balls to do the job; I have some more balls other than Brunswick, but I guess, part of it is that I'm just in the mood for another ball. I would like to have a C-System Alpha, but haven't seen one in Thailand as yet. The only new Brunswick balls available at my pro shop is the Wicked Siege, one with a 2 3/4" pin and the other at 3" and a Revolver with 3" pin. I generally like 3 1/2" to 4" pins for pin up drills, but can make a 3" pin work. I've thought about drilling a Wicked Siege similar to my Evil Siege, but with maybe a 60 to 70 deg mass bias angle and possibly a shorter pin to PAP distance, but I don't know if the pin down drilling would give me the reaction that I want. I am also concerned about the rough buff finish because I am not able to find the rough buff polish here in Thailand so as to maintain this finish when it begins to break down. I would need to change the surface of the ball, any suggestions such as 4000 abralon? The other option is the Revolver at box finish, but again I'm not sure of the drilling that would give me the best results to open up the lane. My PAP is 4 1/2" over and 3/4" up.

Anyway, I appreciate you assistance and looking forward to your next response. Also, do you know if the Brunswick rebate applies for overseas purchases?

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

RSalas · « **Reply #3 on:** April 26, 2011, 11:22:21 AM »

Well, if you're looking to pick up something new...you could probably make the Wicked work for you, if you go with a pin-above layout with a drilling angle in the 55-to-60 degree range, and with some polish. The Wicked will be straighter through the front and more angular than the Evil, and is just as good through the pin deck.

Even with polish, I think the Revolver would want to start up too quickly to give you the reaction that you seek.

I just went back and checked the Web site, and unfortunately, the rebate is only available in the U.S. and Canada.

Let us know what you decide to drill, how you drill it, and how it works for you.

Ray Salas
Brunswick Amateur Staff
http://www.brunswickbowling.com

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #4 on:** April 26, 2011, 01:10:35 PM »

Just ordered a Wicked Seige today and will pick it up tonight. I'm freaking stoked!

GetOffMe10Pin

-"If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson

Brandon Riley · « **Reply #5 on:** April 26, 2011, 02:04:52 PM »

The Wicked lives up to the hype. Its good for anything medium and with the right hand/speed adjustments can be used on a wider variety of lanes/surfaces than probably anything in the Brunswick lineup.

Mine is pin up with 2k + polish.

Brandon Riley

Brunswick Advisory Staff

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Good Times Good Times · « **Reply #6 on:** April 26, 2011, 06:11:01 PM »

Brandon Riley wrote on 4/26/2011 2:04 PM:The Wicked lives up to the hype. Its good for anything medium and with the right hand/speed adjustments can be used on a wider variety of lanes/surfaces than probably anything in the Brunswick lineup.

Mine is pin up with 2k + polish.

Brandon Riley

Brunswick Advisory Staff

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Interesting you say that, mine is 2000 with Brunswick factory finish polish ( I usually try something I can accurately re-produce). Mine is pin up over the ring. Ill find out it's true characteristics over the summer kegel league. This ball and my anaconda should be a pretty decent house shot tandem in general for what I see.

GetOffMe10Pin

-"If you want to make enemies, try to change something." - Woodrow Wilson

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:15:37 AM »

Thanks all,

The bowling house that I visit has put down a heavier pattern over the past few months. It's almost like a reverse block instead of a typical house shot. The oil pattern goes down to 43', but the interesting thing is that there is more oil from the 5 board out to the gutter than there is in the center. If you get it too far outside, the ball will skid straight down to the corner pin if it doesn't slip off into the gutter. I find that straight down the 7/8 board or the 10 board, maybe with a slight belly has been working best. I generally like to swing the ball a little more, playing over the arrow at the 15 board with a little belly, but if you have a ball that tends to go long and drifts close to the 5 board at the break point, it will never recover. If you swing a ball that has a stronger cover, it tends to burn up in the midlane and hits flat at the pins. I'm a little concerned that the Wicked Siege may go too long, but I am also concerned that the Revolver may read too early from the inside and roll out too soon, but may roll great going straight down inside the 5 board, 7 to 10 boards. I'm leaning towards the Wicked Siege, however I am still unsure as to whether go pin up or pin down. I'm still giving it considerable thought and appreciate all of your replies.

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

PS. I do like the idea of changing the surface of the ball from the rough buff finish to either 2000 or 4000 abralon right off the bat.

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:16:49 AM »

Thanks all,

The bowling house that I visit has put down a heavier pattern over the past few months. It's almost like a reverse block instead of a typical house shot. The oil pattern goes down to 43', but the interesting thing is that there is more oil from the 5 board out to the gutter than there is in the center. If you get it too far outside, the ball will skid straight down to the corner pin if it doesn't slip off into the gutter. I find that straight down the 7/8 board or the 10 board, maybe with a slight belly has been working best. I generally like to swing the ball a little more, playing over the arrow at the 15 board with a little belly, but if you have a ball that tends to go long and drifts close to the 5 board at the break point, it will never recover. If you swing a ball that has a stronger cover, it tends to burn up in the midlane and hits flat at the pins. I'm a little concerned that the Wicked Siege may go too long, but I am also concerned that the Revolver may read too early from the inside and roll out too soon, but may roll great going straight down inside the 5 board, 7 to 10 boards. I'm leaning towards the Wicked Siege, however I am still unsure as to whether go pin up or pin down. I'm still giving it considerable thought and appreciate all of your replies.

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

PS. I do like the idea of changing the surface of the ball from the rough buff finish to either 2000 or 4000 abralon right off the bat.

RSalas · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:49:48 AM »

So it sounds like the reaction that you're looking for is something that will let you get inside, away from that OB, but still have enough midlane read and continuation to give you a good look in the pocket. Knowing that, I'd say that the Wicked would work better for you. I'd try it with the box finish, and then go from there--the cover is very tunable, so I think you could find the right surface prep to handle that condition.

Ray Salas
Brunswick Amateur Staff
http://www.brunswickbowling.com

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #10 on:** May 02, 2011, 12:02:04 AM »

I decided to go with the Wicked Siege and drill it pin-up. The ball has a 3 inch pin which will put the pin above the midline and may require a balance hole above my PAP, however the Top Weight is only 2 ounces so I may be able to compensate by having the finger holes drilled deeper. I'm thinking that I will drill the ball with a 60 to 70 degree drilling angle and a 45 degree VAL angle, but have yet to decide whether go use a 4, 4 1/2 or 5 inch pin to PAP distance. Based on my PAP, at 4 inches will put the pin above my ring finger, 4 1/2 centered above the bridge and 5 inch basically over my middle finger give or take a little. I'm not going to drill it until later this coming week so I anyone has any drilling suggestions, I'd like to hear them. My main concern is that I've heard that this ball goes a little too long. I want the ball to be clean through the heads, but I don't want it to push through the breakpoint. I want a fairly quick move at the breakpoint, but not overly jumpy. I would like to be able to play anywhere to down the 10 board with a slightly belly to being able to move inside to open up the lane with little loss of hitting power or roll out. I sometimes have trouble with balls losing too much energy trying to complete the turn when rolling from inside and losing carry. My Wild Thing works pretty well for me from an inside line on medium oil, but tends to skid a little too much on heavier or longer patterns.

The other option would be to drill the ball pin down, but I've already got my Evil Siege drilled this way and it has difficulty finishing strong when I try to open up the lane.

Thanks,

Pattayabowler

Pattayabowler · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2011, 10:41:01 AM »

I ended up going with the Wicked Siege over the Revolver and I am very happy with my decision. I wanted a ball that would allow me to follow the track inside without rolling out or losing continuation through the pins. The Wicked Siege does just that. I drilled it pin up with a 65 deg drilling angle and 45 deg VAL angle, basically a dual angle drill of 65 x 4 1/2 x 45 which puts the pin over the far side of the ring finger and the Mass Bias below and about a half to three quarter inch left of the thumb hole.

The ball easily clears the heads and retains energy throughout the midlane then makes a strong continuous turn, not arc and not flip towards the pin deck. So far the carry has been great, very few messengers required as it generally hits the rack clean and drives the pins straight back into the pit. There were a few times that the Wicked Siege made a little stronger turn as it entered the pocket leaving a few 7 pins, but overall I was impressed with the hitting power, more so than my Evil Siege, I think due to the energy retained in this ball as opposed to my pin down Evil Siege. I find that it rolls a lot like my Wild Thing, but with much more control down the lane and throughout the turn. My Wild Thing is drilled pin up 45 x 5 x 45, revs hard, but has a different motion when rolled, maybe a little over under at times with the OOB finish.

The Wicked Siege rolled very consistent throughout the 5 test games with me only having to make one 2 & 1 move over the entire set. I rolled 190, 188, 203, 221 & 198 for the 5 games. The ball put me in the pocket fairly consistently; I just had a few problems with some spares and just a couple of splits.

Thanks to all who posted to this thread, especially to Ray Salas who was very instrumental in helping me to come to my decision to purchase the Wicked Siege. When I go bowling on Thursday, I plan to pull out my Wicked Siege, Evil Siege, C-System 4.5 and Wild Thing to see where each ball should fit in my arsenal.

Thanks,

Pattayabowler