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Author Topic: Can anyone explain this to me?  (Read 4718 times)

Doug Sterner

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Can anyone explain this to me?
« on: December 10, 2004, 03:59:22 AM »
In my ever-present quest for a ball to deal with our house pattern I stumbled upon an Ice Blue Power Groove in a trade deal with a fellow BR member.

Now this ball is drilled pin over the bridge and the cg stacked under. I saw this and thought..WOW!!! This ball will be great for what I want.

Here's the scenario...
basic top hat pattern with dry outside of 10 and what appears to be a swamp in the middle (on paper anyway). Now basic way to attack this is pretty simple...play just inside the edge, bump to just outside the oil and let it roll back into hte hole.

I am really comfortable with my Dirty Bomb on this shot (pin under ring, cg next to thumb, really low weighthole). I am able to stand 35ish and roll it 17 out to like 10, hit the dry and arc it back to hte pocket. But as the heads burn up the DB starts doing erratic things and I have had to do one of 2 extremes, neither of which I am real comfortable doing...more way right and play the 1st arrow so the ball has more lane to cover to get to the pocket or move and and play up the 3rd arrow with a tiny break and pray it doesn't split or ping the 10 on either shot.

So I figured this Power Groove would allow me to play a similar line but more a but more right with the feet to keep some carry.

Problem....this ball hooks a ton!!!! Why? I had to move deeper with this ball than I was playing with the Dirty Bomb. I found a nice home sliding around 38 and playing the ball over 22 out to 12 and watching the ball dive hard into the pocket. If I pushed it a hair wide it would go beak and leave me a split. I was throwing basically an up the ball release the whole night as well while wearing my Pro Wrist Glove (the red and black one) to keep from cupping my wrist.

I shot 241 with 2 outs in the first game and a 232 with 2 outs in the 3rd. Let's not discuss the middle game as there was a plethora of problems to be had that game.

Why is this ball so strong? Are we all fooling ourselves into thinking that we need the $200 balls for house conditions when a $110 out the door with inserts and slug PowerGroove will perform like this?

Opinions? Let's have 'em.....
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
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Fatboy8

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2004, 12:04:12 PM »
I've always said this is the best kept secret in bowling. I bought mine for dry conditions, and shined it up, and still hooks a ton. I wish I bought another when they were on closeout, and drilled it for oil. Brunswick is right on the money with the Groove series!
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Krumpy300

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2004, 12:18:17 PM »
It is an amazing ball. I spent with drilling $55 for mine (won it on Ebay for 9.99). It is much stronger than I had imagined it to be. I thought it would react more like a Scout or Big Hit pearl, but it is way stronger. A definite steal if you can still find them cheap. Add in the fact that it hits better than some of my higher end equipment. Every once in a while you find that entry level ball that exceeds all expectations..


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Lane1Redneck

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2004, 12:19:56 PM »
I've got the proactive PG {black sparkle}
when the lanes are oily this ball really moves a tone.  Think Brunswick was right when they said theres  no others like it in the entry level class..
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JEFF

Strapper_Squared

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2004, 12:40:02 PM »
I also had a PG particle...bought it for medium/dry lanes w/ a little carry down.  I qucikly found out that this ball was WAY too strong for those conditions...  I polished the ball and it still hooked a ton.  I recently ran into the same trouble you were having were I was looking for a ball to fall back on once the lanes started to break down.  I thought about pipcking up a PG pearl... but remember how strong they actually were.  Instead I found an OLD HSP Sun Storm (before Storm was actually storm)...  I rejuvenated/resurfaced the ball, plugged the thumb and redrilled it...and it works wonders!  It gets greath length and gives a nice acring backend.  So I think the answer may not necessarily be buying a "new" low end ball for drier lanes, but rather finding an older high end ball.  I know there have been a couple triton heats floating around here and eBay recently... I think they would work excellent too!

Good Luck,

S^2
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BrunsBob

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2004, 03:04:52 PM »
We realize that we have the strongest reaction in the $90 price range. 90% of the time this is a great thing, but we sometimes question do we need a ball in this price range or a little lower that will be more tame for when lanes really start to break down. A few of the companies have a reactive with just the "pancake" block, but sales of these are usually much lower than those made with the dropped pucks that react much more. What do most of you guys think? Could Brunswick use a pancake reactive at a lower price point to compliment our line? We feel we have a very complete lineup right now, except for a reactive made for drier lanes. Right now we drop down from the Pearl PG's or Slay/R down to a urethane Groove or plastic.

Just Curious,

    Robert
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RSalas

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2004, 03:46:45 PM »
quote:
Could Brunswick use a pancake reactive at a lower price point to compliment our line?


Hmm...how can I put this delicately?

YES!!!

Thanks for reading.  
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charlest

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2004, 04:56:35 PM »
Doug, AND BrunsBob,

Quite a while back, it was noted in a thread here on the Brunswick forum that the Ice Blue PG, although it was not a "manly" color and did not sell well enough to be retained, it was the strongest of the PG resin pearl series by a significant margin.

Please read another thread here at the Brunswick forum entitled, "Colors on Power Groove". In it, another well-informed user, DP3, tells us a similar story with the current series of PG pearls. As he has proved his veracity time and time again, I cannot doubt his descriptions.

It seems odd that these colors allow such a huge variation in ball reaction.

BrunsBob,

I have to believe that the different colors of PG series, even though Brunswick says they are all PK 17 material, should virtually be re-labelled 3 different coverstocks. AND one or more should be put around a milder core, BUT not a pancake core. ALthough the RG is high, the RG differential is large. Could you get that reduced to say, around .035 - .030, rather than its current .041?

(BTW, Doesn't this PG core virtually have a true mass bias?)


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Edited on 12/10/2004 5:48 PM

Edited on 12/10/2004 8:16 PM
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Doug Sterner

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2004, 09:22:46 AM »
Shermdog...

as I have styated many times before on here...drop and kick is the preferred delivery method at our center. I am thinking the Dirty is burning up a hair on it's way downlane since my Black Phantom with gloss polish also rolls way too soon and hooks across the lanes if I do anything with my hand at all.

I do have another Dirty Bomb coming that I plan on drilling the same way as the power groove just for comparison...maybe "cheap w/ dum dum drill" is the best bet around here...
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Hide the women and children...

The Dirty Bomb cometh!!!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

djones

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2004, 02:51:06 PM »
How about a low-flare 2-piece, something like the low-flare Stinger. This should smooth out the reaction.

Mike Austin

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2004, 11:25:09 PM »
Doug,

The PG saves energy soo much better than your Dirty Bomb, and when it releases this energy, watch out.  I have had similar problems/scenarios with Scout Reactives.  These balls hook!  Your Dirty Bomb burns up sooner, hence the more controllable hook.

Stay with the Dirty Bomb, but when the heads start going away, move your target down the lane and try to soften your hand motion.  You might even need to move right a little.  This should get the ball down the lane, delay the burn, make the ball not read as quick, however you want to say it.

I have went to this idea as often as possible, heaven forbid I get to throw more ball.  This has worked really well for me, targeting around 35 to 40 feet.

Another idea that works for some, knock a little shine off with scotch brite by hand, not on the spinner, should make the ball hook a little earlier and less.

(Was up Throb????)


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Doug Sterner

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2004, 11:44:07 PM »
Thanks guys!
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Hide the women and children...

The Dirty Bomb cometh!!!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

Ric Clint

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2004, 01:29:57 AM »
quote:
BrunsBob,

I have to believe that the different colors of PG series, even though Brunswick says they are all PK 17 material, should virtually be re-labelled 3 different coverstocks. AND one or more should be put around a milder core, BUT not a pancake core. ALthough the RG is high, the RG differential is large. Could you get that reduced to say, around .035 - .030, rather than its current .041?



What about the Dynamic Groove? It's is suppose to go longer than the Power Groove and handle less oil, but still have a good backend also. It's got a lower RG Dif than the Power Groove too.

Does Brunswick have anything that compares to the Dynamic Groove?





Doug Sterner

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2004, 12:08:50 PM »
I am really starting to wonder what's going on now...the ball didn't hook a baord this week but my polished Black Phantom jerked so hard off the dry it was like someone kicked it at 45 feet.

Now I am really confused. Oh well...only 1/2 the season to go!!!!
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Hide the women and children...

The Dirty Bomb cometh!!!

Now accepting VISA/MC and Discover for your purchases
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY

Proud Member of the NRA
Fighting to uphold the Constitution of the U.S.

RSalas

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Re: Can anyone explain this to me?
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2004, 12:25:43 AM »
quote:
Does Brunswick have anything that compares to the Dynamic Groove?


Not any more.  IIRC, the DG had the pancake on top and a smaller puck at the bottom of the ball, directly opposite the pancake.  I also believe that the Attack Zone MR and the PB III Long Skid used this core.  As we all know, the PGs have two cylindrical pucks that are not opposite the pancake, but rather are offset slightly.

I don't remember which coverstock was on the DG (I think someone posted a while back that it was some flavor of PK 17), but it would be interesting to see the Ice Blue cover on the DG core.
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"Dispensing conventional wisdom to a fingertip world."

Horrid in Doubles, torrid in Singles...
...that's The Curse of Dusty.
#TweetYourScores