BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: Dewey24 on January 09, 2009, 07:55:03 AM
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Don't want to turn this into a pissing match with other companies starting S**T. I was just hoping if one of the Bruns guys could help me understand what constitutes a blem. I have the chance to pick up a avalanche slide blem and just want to know if it is worth spending the money. Are their certain guidelines to the whole process as far as the ball is oval vs the color is to dark. Any help you can give to help me understand the process is greatly appreciated. Again if you are looking for a place to make negative Brunswick comments place find somewhere else.
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Blems can be:
Off color,
Engraving errors,
Pin distance beyond a certain point (maybe 5-6") but that's a guess,
There may be more, but that's about it...
Most seem to be "cosmetic" blems which should not affect performance.
They will be round and probably just fine to most bowlers, but it's good to know WHY it was classified as a blem because if there's an Avalanche with a very long pin it would likely be extremely tame.
Now, hopefully BrunsBob or someone who REALLY knows can clarify or correct me.
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Amateur Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
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There are numerous things that can make a ball become a blem, but performance is never one of them. Pretty much all cosmetic things that make a ball not acceptable as a first.
If you have a chance to pick one up at a good price you won't be dissappointed in the reaction, unless, like with any ball, you attempt to use it on the wrong conditions.
RoB LaW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
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FWIW -
My local shop has gotten a few of the Brunswick factory 2nd's in and the two that I looked at this evening had what I would consider average specs. It would appear to me that they were considered 2nds because the engraving was not placed correctly in regards to the pin/CG location.
People familiar with standard Brunswick engraving would likely notice that first quality balls have the Big B at 12 o'clock when using the CG as the center of the clockface and the pin located roughly on the line extending through the center of the clock and 3 o'clock.
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Thank you so much for the information. So if I'm reading this right. The average person should never know there was anything wrong with the ball. It's mostly a quality control decision at the plant. But it is nothing like they put the wrong core in upside down in the mold or something crazy like that.
Edited on 1/10/2009 7:44 AM
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quote:
There are numerous things that can make a ball become a blem, but performance is never one of them. Pretty much all cosmetic things that make a ball not acceptable as a first.
If you have a chance to pick one up at a good price you won't be dissappointed in the reaction, unless, like with any ball, you attempt to use it on the wrong conditions.
RoB LaW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
What about the grossly undersized mid weight blems???
They won't come back through the ball returns on some AMF machines with kicker wheels.. They are the worst...
Other than that...
I have been drilling and selling blems for 10 years and have over a dozen honor scores with them from all companies...
BUY ONE!!!!!
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
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Not sure what your seeing in the undersized balls. Our acceptable minimum standards are still above the minimums that the USBC deems acceptable. A ball is not supposed to leave our plant if it's below that measurement. As for the mid-weight balls, those are generally balls that have had to be worked down a 2nd time after finding some kind of surface flaw, thus causing them to lose enough weight to become a mid-weight, but still above the legal minimum sizing.
RoB LaW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
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quote:
inverted 1 is an ah
An avid homewrecker?
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Me (http://"http://www.myspace.com/root4d20car")
MTIXE
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Buuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!
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www.badrap.org
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quote:
Not sure what your seeing in the undersized balls. Our acceptable minimum standards are still above the minimums that the USBC deems acceptable. A ball is not supposed to leave our plant if it's below that measurement. As for the mid-weight balls, those are generally balls that have had to be worked down a 2nd time after finding some kind of surface flaw, thus causing them to lose enough weight to become a mid-weight, but still above the legal minimum sizing.
RoB LaW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.
I had a problem with a grossly undersized ball a while ago. Avalance pearl to be exact. This wasn't about that. It was about them in general from every company. It may have met your minimum standards Bob but it wouldn't stay on my vacuu jig and had 3/16 - 1/4 inch gap on the Pro Sect.
On old AMF kicker wheel returns they don't come back.
That is all I was saying.
Possitive ball lifts and brunswick machines are no problem.
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
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Thanks for the advise Sawingemdown. Luckily the pro shop I deal with is owned by my brother and he usually takes pretty good care of me.
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I got in a MaXXX Zone with no logos (most of the Big B is there and a small portion of the Big X, but that is all)
We put it through the diameter rings and the ball passed clearly through both of them.. Grossly undersized as Beans has said..
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I dont quite understand why the blems are not marked. I just got some in, they are not bad as far as specs or coloring, but none are marked. I am speaking of Brunswicks. This is going to be an issue when people sell on Ebay or even here and think they have 1st runs....but really they are 2nds.
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I AGREE.
MARK THE BALLS!!!!
Other than that I love the blems when they are priced right.
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
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quote:
0-1" and 4" and over pins are considered blems. They are sold to shops at a reduced price. Shops are supposed to inform the customer that they are blems, and shops are supposed to sell them at a reduced rate because they are buying them cheaper because they are blems. Some shops are hinest and do this. Alot of shops don't inform the customer of this and still sell them at regular prices.
http://www.bowlingdeals.com/info/description.html
X-Blem, X-Out, & Seconds:
Manufacturers release their high performance bowling balls under the X-Blem, X-Out or Second label when small non-performance issues occur. The core and coverstock combinations on these bowling balls are identical to the first line bowling balls.
A bowling ball is labeled an X-Blem, X-Out, or Second for any one of the following reasons:
Color pigmentation.
Small pitting caused by air bubbles.
Unique pin placement, top weight, or mass bias marking location.
Labels are engraved in unusual places or may have the wrong logos engraved on ball.
Swirl patterns of the ball are not consistent, which may effect the color (look) of the ball greatly.
Engravings such as the serial numbers, cg location markers or logos may be stamped on the ball more than once.
These differences do not effect the performance of the bowling ball or the ability to drill the bowling ball. Therefore allowing bowlers to purchase top of the line bowling equipment at a fraction of the cost.
Edited on 1/15/2009 4:57 AM
Considered by who? You better tell the distributors that 0-1 and 4+ pins are blems, because every distributor in the country has them in their warehouse and sell to the shops at full wholesale. They are not blems. Get your facts straight before spewing, or stay over in the Lane #1 Forum.
Your link is to that web site's definition of blemished balls. No manufacturers names were mentioned, except for Storm, they call theirs X-comps. Nowhere did it mention the pin distances that you did.
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Thank you everyone for your input. Just a follow up, I ordered a Twisted Fury Destruction blem and a Slide blem. The TFD has a one inch pin and the colors are close. The slide looks like it might have just been a color problem. Overall two balls for the price of one is a great deal. Again thanks for the input!
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Imagine how many blems not marked are sold at the booth during Nationals as 1st just because they don't mark the balls as blems.
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quote:
http://forums.hammerbowling.com/showthread.php?t=7743
http://www.bowling.com/products/elite-pba-platinum-blem-2nd.htm
http://www.rotogrip.com/company/faq.asp
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/glossary.asp (notice here it says pins beyond 4" are considered blems.)
http://www.bowlingdeals.com/Bowling-Ball-2990/Track-Freak-A-Zoid-2nd.html
http://www.bowling.com/products/hammer-black-widow-limited-x-out.htm
MGbowling.com is a pro shop with all the bowling balls, bowling bags, bowling shoes and accessories you want for the lowest prices available on the internet. We never sell seconds, x-lines, or blemished balls, unless clearly stated. We take pride in the equipment we sell. We've got everything from high-performance bowling balls to rental bowling shoes to Disney and cartoon character items. We have a huge selection of bowling supplies, accessories and tools at extremely low prices. Take the time to browse through our products and see how we can meet all your bowling equipment needs.
Thanks,
The staff at MGbowling.com
Every one of your links proved my statement, thanks very much. Elites balls were blems for color problems, didn't say anything about pin distance. Bowlingballreviews is a web site, not a manufacturer, they have a right to their opinion. Rotogrip's link mentioned out of line cg's, nothing about pin distance. The first link on the Hammer forum shows a Pro Cg Storm ball, doesn't have anything to do with pin distance.
Nothing wrong with 0-1 pins and 4+ pins. In some ways these balls are more versatile, in some ways not so much. These specs in and of themselves do not make the balls blems. 5 or 6+ pins, those are probably not so nice. Roto's site said they mark the balls with an X by the serial number. Have seen many of these Storm made balls. Usually nothing wrong them and they will save you money. Pro CG balls can be pretty sweet too, if you get the cg in the right position.
Many blemished balls are marked on the ball, specially Storm's with their C's and X's on the bottom of the ball by the serial number. Some companies mark the boxes that the balls come in.
No distributors knowingly sell factory blems at regular wholesale. I've been in the industry a long time, and 4-5 pins and 0-1 pins are not considered blemishes.
Good luck to ya Sparky.
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THIS SPACE FOR RENT
Edited on 1/15/2009 4:58 PM
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I have to agree with Mike here. A 0-1 and a 4-5 pin are not blems. I am the king of the blem and have sold well over 1000 from all manufacturers including Bonanzas and Regency's which are the same as the logo balls they have now. The difference is that the USBC wants each company to pay to approve every single Bonanza color and core combo. So the companies figured they can sell the balls with the logo's on them at a higher price just by marking X-Comp,X-Blem,X-Out or 2nd on them..
The reason that distributors usually sell the 0-1 and 4-5 pins cheaper is becasue they get stuck with more becasue most customers and pro shop operators are suckered into believing that 1-2,2-3 and 3-4 pins are superior. If that is the case than that defeats your whole CGNOMADDAH theory...
I have been in contact with many brand managers and RD dierectors and there are always other problems with the balls. Color blems, out of line MB's or 5+" pins and super high or low tops weights. Many different reasons....
The statement that 0-1 and 4-5 are all considered blems is just not correct. The statement is too general.
I happen to know Mike Austin from the booth last year and he is a PBA Champion and pro shop operator for a long time and "VERY" knowledgable. He is also very modest and would not post something that was not researched first..
BUT KEEP THE LANE#1 BASHING TO A MINIMUM THERE MIKEY!!!! Lol!
Beans
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www.beansproshop.com
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 National Sales Manager and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=beanssecretsauce Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!
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Mike is right on the ball (pun intended) here and doubting his knowledge and experience is foolish.
0-1" pin would be an ideal non blem ball of choice if low pin drilling is desired.
4+" pin would be an ideal non blem ball of choice if a high pin or pin on axis is desired.
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Beans,
No Lane #1 bashing from me. I think all the arguing is funny. Craig at Lane #1 treated me awesome and still emails from time to time. Never had any issues with that company, MAP, no MAP, whatever. Lane #1 balls sold well for me, even at MAP.
I'm not worried about the CG madda stuff, I drilled the balls and they rolled well, quality was always good.
Sawingem,
I don't have to call any RD guys at the factories, I can call a rep from every company, that I've known for many years. I'm sorry that you found a few shops that sold blems as regulars, but not this guy. Like Beans, I loved selling blems, but I always told the buyer what he/she was getting. You can bash on me all you want, I don't get upset. I know what I know, and many others know I know my stuff too. I've never bashed anyone in the Lane #1 Forum, and rarely anywhere else for that matter. I'm not gonna bash you, it's pointless.
Like I said, the distributors order 500 or more of Ball K, they get some with 0-1 pins every time. They get some with 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5 too. Sometimes 5+. As long as the color is right, logos are right, cg falls in line with the pin/mb line to their tolerance, the ball is not a blem. Even then some balls slip out of the factories, cg's miss marked, logos crooked, logos wrong place, logos missing, most of the time there's nothing wrong with these balls either. Now maybe you and your pro shop guy believe that 0-1 and 4+ pin balls are blems, you believe what you want. That is not the consensus in the industry.
Come to think of it, I have received 0-1 and 4-5 pin Lane #1 balls in the past. When Craig took my order, he asked me what pin distances I wanted, and the large majority of the time, I told him it didn't matter, send me what he had the most of. I can make 'em all work.
Have a great weekend youse guys!!
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