Author Topic: mb in track (Read 3226 times)

tempo · « **on:** June 25, 2007, 08:45:23 PM »

Has anyone out there tried placed the mb in the track area? What would happen? This layout is NOT advised according to Brunswick drilling instruction due to the possiblity of flaring over all the holes. My first track is just over 2" away from my fingers and thumb holes, would it work well for me?

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #1 on:** June 26, 2007, 04:49:26 AM »

With a low track you'd be safe, it is just risky for high trackers because negative flare can be the result.
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charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** June 26, 2007, 05:03:06 AM »

Besides what dizzy said, the stronger the mass bias of that ball, the less backend you will get by placing the MB in or near the track. Remember that the bowler's release, the pin position and the surface still rule the ball's reaction.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 6/26/2007 5:04 AM

Grayson · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2007, 05:14:40 AM »

Friend of mine had a Track Machine (strong MB) and the driller placed the MB on the tack to "keep the ball controllable"....

well... actually the ball was dead and move less than a plastic spare
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charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2007, 05:24:50 AM »

Yup, once you move the MB on the track side of the thumb hole or 6" from the PAP, you better have some revs on the ball (probably in the 300 - 350 rpm range, at a minimum) to insure the ball has some backend.

With stronger mass bias balls, the pin placement vs the MB placement can be a tricky balancing act!!!! Caution is advised.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2007, 06:26:32 AM »

WELLL...I think it depends.

One will notice That as balls get more mass bias.

Say... .012 versus .019 most manufacturers stopped recommending mass bias on the negative or track side of the ball.

For example...The X factor drill sheets show mass bias in the track. The XXX factor drillings do not.

Mo Pinel cores like the Total Annihilation, Ravage, Onslaught allowed negative mass bias....stronger mass bias balls since the Shock and Awe, WMB do not recommend it!

I have found in our center with extremely dry midlanes that the slightly mass bias balls with the mass bias in the track...take out the midlane move I do not need as the dry lane supplies the midlane(pattern only oiled to 14 feet and placed on all day remnants). This can be a very effective drilling!

Many guys in our center have also placed this drilling on their black widows(listed as high mass bias by Hammer but drilling # 4 recommends mass bias negative) and are ecstatic over the move. I have also placed this drilling on an X factor deuce(same core as X factor...and love it at this center). At centers with lots of midlane oil.....not so much!

Final thought....if recommended by manufacturer or mass bias lower than .019 MB near track usually is safe to do. NOte weak MB placement(little midlane typically), strong MB near val = lots of midlane typically smooth backend, stacked MB means strong midlane and strong backend!

REgards,

Luckylefty

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shelley · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2007, 04:26:34 PM »

quote:
doesnt the hammer no mercy suggest placing the "heart" aka mass bias in the track?

Yes, but it's not "hart aka mass bias". The HART is 90* from the MB, the true MB is swung towards the VAL. With the HART core, Hammer found a way to very reliably put the CG in your palm with the MB swung out pretty far. I believe it was a jab at the USBS's proposed rule requiring the CG to be near the center of grip with no weight hole. You could do that with other asymmetrics if the CG was off the pin-MB line but the actual CG placement was not consistently off that line. Most desirable asyms have the CG pretty close in line, the No Mercy's was consistently off that line.

SH

al_g · « **Reply #7 on:** June 27, 2007, 03:03:25 PM »

I have a Zone Classic drilled pin beside ring, MB in track and like it. It has almost a hook-stop reaction which makes it very controllable/predictable. For me it helps even out the reaction on drier medium conditions where other balls might overreact. It also works well on fresh medium conditions or if the backends are really flying. I've also had success with it on the Cheetah pattern in my PBA league and in early games at tournaments that have used the US Open flat oil pattern. You can't swing the ball a lot and expect it to recover with this kind of layout. It also doesn't care for any kind of carrydown, but that may a characteristic of the ball and not the drilling.

I used to have an AMF Fusion Hook Monster drilled this way too and it reacted similar on higher volume conditions.

tempo · « **Reply #8 on:** June 27, 2007, 04:07:58 PM »

Wow, thank you for everyone's input. Can someone tell me what negative/reverse flare means? Does it mean the flares start far away from the holes then flare back towards fingers and thumb? ie dry flare rings next to holes?

shelley · « **Reply #9 on:** June 27, 2007, 04:14:05 PM »

Normally you flare away from the thumbhole. Whether you flare towards, away, or neutral to the fingers depends on where the bowtie is, but even if you flare towards the fingers (bowtie below the fingerline), you'd have to flare a pretty good bit to clip them.

Reverse flaring has the flare lines moving toward the thumb. Since the bowtie is usually close to the finger line, given enough separation and revs, you can make the ball flare over the thumb. Low trackers don't have to worry about that as much, as the track's far enough away that it might not be clipped. But high and medium trackers will clip the thumb if the flare reverses. I do sometimes even with normal flare.

That's why the pin is where it is for full rollers. Reversing the flare for them keeps the flare off the thumb and fingers, standard flare would clip the lot.

SH

tempo · « **Reply #10 on:** June 27, 2007, 04:59:01 PM »

I see, Shelly. Your explaomation is very clear, thank you.

Interest that placing the mb on the track would cause reverse flare. It sound like, according to everyone's replies, this particular layout has its own advantage.

Can I extand this topic a bit more and ask, if there was an answer to this question at all:

As you swing the mb from the positive side(right side of thumb hole) towards your track , at what point then the flare is reversed? And the higher the mb strength the earlier this would happen? Up to this point, I assume it's the best position for the most continous backend reaction, for a asymmetrical core ball?(Of course, if you wanted smooth reaction, a symmetrical core ball would have been a better choice in the first place.)

mb on val for more midlane reaction and controlled backend
mb parallel to first track for sharp backend

Of course, the effect of coverstock and pin placement come first.

shelley · « **Reply #11 on:** June 27, 2007, 05:06:38 PM »

quote:
As you swing the mb from the positive side(right side of thumb hole) towards your track , at what point then the flare is reversed? And the higher the mb strength the earlier this would happen? Up to this point, I assume it's the best position for the most continous backend reaction, for a asymmetrical core ball?(Of course, if you wanted smooth reaction, a symmetrical core ball would have been a better choice in the first place.)

For strong asymmetrics, if you want that controlled reaction you'd normally get with a label-type layout, most manufacturers recommend putting the MB under the thumb.

When does the flare reverse? I don't know. Is it just on the negative side of the ball or once the MB is actually in the track? Dunno.

SH

Author Topic: mb in track (Read 3226 times)

tempo

mb in track

dizzyfugu

Re: mb in track

charlest

Re: mb in track

Grayson

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charlest

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LuckyLefty

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shelley

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al_g

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tempo

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shelley

Re: mb in track

tempo

Re: mb in track

shelley

Re: mb in track