Post by: Rantings on June 17, 2005, 01:40:45 AM
I say No.
We are loosing more and more companies to this so-called free trade agreements. If you really looked at it, only the US is free trade. China and other countries still demand tariffs as this country ought. Read the constitution.
Ranting again,
Rantings
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Post by: Overhand on June 17, 2005, 09:54:32 AM
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If everyone fried their food, there would be no wars.
Post by: BigWillyStyle on June 17, 2005, 10:18:50 AM
You drained that one with ease SweetFeet!!!
Big Willy Style
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Just my $0.02; so take it for what the Foreign Exchange values it at!
"I was raised by a cup of coffee..."
***This message brought to you by the A.O.B.U.B.O.A. (Assembly Of Back-Up Bowlers Of America) which is now taking applications***
Post by: Rantings on June 17, 2005, 10:41:30 AM
Let's just blame the workers? The problem with many of these companies is the management not the average worker and his salary. Many of these companies didn't make a product fit for buying and much of that is a management decision on design. GM made its own bed. SweetFeet what do you do for a living?
The Constitution is being violated so corporate America can make a windfall not to make it viable in the world market. What is going to happen is as America becomes a service nation and produces nothing it will fall in on itself.
GM
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Bowling is for sissies..ask Bones...
Post by: michelle on June 17, 2005, 10:42:23 AM
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on June 17, 2005, 10:46:46 AM
quote:
The comment about the vehicles is somewhat off the mark, though, since many of those "imports" are actually produced in the US, some even using union labor. There are not many vehicles that actually get built "over there" and come to the States by boat (regardless of which coast they are unloaded on).
And the union portion of the argument begins...
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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
Post by: EL on June 17, 2005, 10:57:30 AM
Post by: T Brockette on June 17, 2005, 11:05:08 AM
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Tracy
If you want to play, train your body
If you want to win, train your heart
Post by: michelle on June 17, 2005, 11:18:55 AM
quote:quote:
The comment about the vehicles is somewhat off the mark, though, since many of those "imports" are actually produced in the US, some even using union labor. There are not many vehicles that actually get built "over there" and come to the States by boat (regardless of which coast they are unloaded on).
And the union portion of the argument begins...
Actually, I was hoping to keep that argument from ensuing...my point was that import does not always mean non-union, which many believe would mean lower costs to the end consumer.
Post by: qstick777 on June 17, 2005, 11:37:45 AM
quote:
are you going to continue buying brunswick equipment?
If the product is superior to other products, then YES I will buy the equipment. I don't really care where the product is made.
It does suck that they are taking jobs away from Americans, but they are in business to make money and provide shareholder wealth. You can't fault the company for wanting to make as much profit as they can.
If you want to complain, then call your Congress representative and suggest a law to provide for an importation tax on US companies that manufacturer products outside of US soil, then bring them back here to sell. The reason the foreign automakers manufacture cars here is so they don't have to pay the import tax on bringing the vehicles over. The profits are still going overseas (yes they still pay US taxes, real estate taxes, etc), but the companies are still based in Japan (or wherever), and at the end of the day the US dollar is getting converted to some other currency. You notice the quality of the foreign cars hasn't really decreased (in general) since they are assembled here in the good 'ole U S of A, but you don't hear anymore advertising from Ford, GM, or Dodge/Chrysler about "Made in America." That may be more because GM is one of the biggest to blame - they closed a lot of plants in USA. Maybe if they didn't make 8 different brands of the same car they could make some money, or maybe they could drop the real loss leader brand (Buick) instead of sacrificing a brand with some style (Olds), but that is another topic altogether.
Some people would say that building a new factory can help increase productivity. I would think that there is probably a lot of the process that can be automated - that would decrease jobs either way.
Post by: rotomike on June 17, 2005, 11:50:15 AM
The Lind's example hopefully will not be followed by Brunswick. It was heartbreaking to receive those "Lind's Classics" in the blue box look insdie and see glue and loose stitches all over the place.
Post by: Oskuposer on June 17, 2005, 11:53:11 AM
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Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"
Post by: bighook69 on June 17, 2005, 11:57:09 AM
But for a while I will not buy Brunswick...
note to self: make that trash raiding run soon
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SlickTape Advisory staff member
Track Bowling.com
Evolutionary - Revolutionary
Track Pack
dont forget www.slicktape.com
Post by: TheDude on June 17, 2005, 11:58:30 AM
Partial bio for him
He actaully works in the auto industry. starting as a car washer to now owning 1 ford dealership and 4 other used car lots, working also as a used car wholesaler.
ex- if the car's serial number starts with :
1-made In usa
2 made in canada
3 made in mexico
so far in recent years mazada is outselling ford enormously. a funny comment by him when talking about his ex gf, she as a sales agent (read as single person) for mazada is selling more cars than his own ford dealership.
also about the UAW most Of the automarkers that don't have them in place in there plants in north america don't need them, because there employees can stand behind there quality products without fear.
Unions increase prices and keep mediocore workers employed. Simple As that. I have personally done warehouse jobs working for minimum wage, and i put in twice as much effort as the person next to me.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: TheDude on June 17, 2005, 12:15:53 PM
the focus engine is a mazada engine because it's not worth it for ford to pay there own higher wage empolyees to build an engine they can get for less from mazada.
As for storm having alot of balls made In korea only the some Of the plastic balls have been made In korea, mostly the clear ones, and some Of the later verisons of the plastics, the original "spare storm " is actually made by brunswick, and it's obvious because the serial numbers are exactly as brunswick's
as for the union fight, i'm with michelle in i don't want to start a fight about them because it is a never ending fight.
quote:
I know this is wrong for me to post this about The Big B but do any of you own any storm balls because alot of tem are made in Korea. And for the import cars Mazda is owned by ford.
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Good bowlers use the big B and when they do they create a Storm
Kiall Hill
A.K.A.
The Chipmunk
"Its a trip 4 fest"
"God Dam it"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"
as for the union battle, i don't personally like them because if I am in A situation where there are two workers and one does the better job deserves the raise not everyone. with unions you have to take the good with the bad, and there is not a choice for the company.
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Post by: Bjaardker on June 17, 2005, 12:19:30 PM
People always say "you wont make a difference". That's the exact same train of thought that has led America into the outsourcing/trade deficit situation we're in today.
There was a small group of people here 200 years ago. If they had said "just a few of us can't make a difference" we would still be singing "God Save the Queen" today.
Like I said in a previous thread, I don't care if Brunswick does or doesn't care about my business, that's not why I'm doing it. I do it to know that when my head hits the pillow at the end of the day, I've done everything I could to make sure we stay one of the greatest nations & keep my neighbors and myself for that matter employed.
Post by: TheDude on June 17, 2005, 12:22:38 PM
The quality story doesn't end there this year for 'the General', since GM manufacturing units took all three medals awarded for 'North/South America plant quality'. Canadian workers can be rightfully proud that the Oshawa #2 and Oshawa #1 plants - where several of the cars mentioned above are built - received the coveted Gold and Silver Plant Quality Awards, ___ while the Bronze went to the Hamtramck, Michigan facility. ___
Still, the Platinum Award for worldwide plant quality went to Toyota's Tahara, Japan facility, for a fourth consecutive year. Toyota's Higashi-Fuji plant and Nissan's Tochigi factory, both in Japan, took the Silver and Bronze awards for the Asia Pacific region.
The Jaguar plant, in Halewood, U.K. (part of Ford's Premier Auto Group), earned the Gold Plant Quality Award for Europe, while BMW's Regensburg, Germany plant took the Silver medal. The Bronze was shared by BMW's Munich plant, and Porsche's original venue, in Zuffenhausen, near Stuttgart.
only 1 plant in america took a jd power award. so tell me why the worldwide gold medal winner is in japan and they are not unionized.
taken from http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/advice/windowshop.aspx?contentid=4022690&src=home&pos=Edit1
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Timothy @Juniors Pro-Shop
Staff Writer 7-10 Split Magazine,EGO Communications
Montreal, Quebec.
Vote No for USBC logos, and the effective ban of the X-hole. Vote in Orlando, June 05. Save Our X-Holes!
Edited on 6/17/2005 12:23 PM
Post by: a_ak57 on June 17, 2005, 12:56:26 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but your thought of "Helping out the country" is a bunch of crap. If you ACTUALLY want to help, you know actually get off your butt and do something REAL, get a petition going. If you get enough people to back you up, then maybe you can force Brunswick to do something. Think about it, you aren't doing anything by doing nothing (aka not buying their stuff).....
quote:
Like I said in a previous thread, I don't care if Brunswick does or doesn't care about my business, that's not why I'm doing it. I do it to know that when my head hits the pillow at the end of the day, I've done everything I could to make sure we stay one of the greatest nations & keep my neighbors and myself for that matter employed.
Like I said, I honestly don't know how the hell you think you're doing ANYTHING to "keep your neighbors employed". Please, explain that to me. I'm not being rude, I just honestly can't find ANY train of thought that would explain how not buying something, somehow gives people their jobs back??
Oh, BTW. Don't think I'm anti-boycott, because I'm not. I only just oppose it for only odd reasons like thinking it will help out people being employed. You can bet that if the quality of their products drops, or if something similar happens again (not just a one time occurence), then I'll be buying other stuff. But right now, if you truly want to feel like you're doing something, we need to find some way to help out those who will be leaving their jobs. Maybe we can start a petition to get brunswick to compensate for them or something. Afterall, with all the 5-7 million bucks their saving, they could surely help out 117 people or whatever the number is.
As you can see, even with my hostility towards you (which I'm sorry if I offended you), I'm a believer in trying to create positive solutions to benefit everyone, not negative ones.
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Edited on 6/17/2005 1:02 PM
Post by: a_ak57 on June 17, 2005, 01:22:26 PM
quote:
if someone wants to "boycott" a certian product for any reason, then they have the right to do that, regardless if someone else thinks it serves so purpose.
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F.O.S. member
Glad to see you don't know how to read. My post wasn't saying he shouldn't boycott them, I was telling him that doing so wouldn't help the people get their jobs back (which is why he said he would do it). If you learned how to read, you'd have noticed I said I'm not anti-boycott, just only if it's for weak reasons...Hell, I even said I'd do it if the quality drops, or if this kind of thing happens again....
Read before you put words into someone's mouth. Nobody here is supporting the move, it's just different degrees of "how much do you hate it" and "what will you do about it"....
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- Andy
Brunswick...........'nuff said.
Post by: DanH78 on June 17, 2005, 01:30:13 PM
Boycotting a company because you do not agree with their business practices is not a "weak reason", regardless of whether you help someone.
on edit: If you feel displeasure towards this move, email the Corporate HQ in Lake Forest, IL
services@brunswick.com
Will it help? Maybe not, but it's worth a try
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!
"I love a martini -- but two at the most. Three I’m under the table; Four, I’m under the host." Dorothy Parker
Edited on 6/17/2005 1:32 PM
Post by: Walking E on June 17, 2005, 01:42:35 PM
I mean, it would be great if this resulted in the price of an Inferno or Zone ball dropping 20-30 bucks or so, but we all know that this isn't going to happen.
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Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on June 17, 2005, 02:51:47 PM
For all of you people who would boycott. What bowling shoes do you wear?
Linds Implex-China when it was sold by Greg Lind
ABS- China
Dexter - Recently China
Etonic- not totally sure, I think USA.
I always looked at the bowling ball industry as a smart business as they have never really had foreign intrusion into its production but maybe now the door may open. I will buy anything from anywhere but I'm also not short sighted, seeing american business whaning.
Post by: tburky on June 17, 2005, 05:27:20 PM
quote:
Well who's fault is it for sighning one sided free trade agreements with other countries, and you can"t blame corprate America for wanting to leave with the high tax rates, and the high salaries. Why is the general motors car corporation in such defict because the average salary is about 25$ per hour, and 1000$ per car sold has to be put away into the pension fund, so as a director of a business were would you rather put your factory some place were you can pay minimun wage and someplace were your business can cut some corners but still turn a profit, or a place were you are going to show a loss 3 out of every 5 years. Do the math it is just simple business. For the people who boycott a product because a company moved there plant mexico, wake up smell the Columbian coffee, Put on your levis or Tommy jean(witch are made in thailand) get into your import car(Toyota honda mazda kia nissan ect.) and go about your day because saying lets boycott because a company decides it wants to survive in a global economy is a joke........
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I've got two surface choices: Green Scotch Brite Or 2000 Grit Polish.Choose your death grasshopper.
Don't know where you get your information on $1000 per car. Pension is figured so much on the hour for a 40 hour work week. For example $2.00 per hour into the pension fund figures to be $320 for 160 hour month. Also, note that the automakers pension fund is way under funded. The federal government (PBGC) that controls pensions should have froze and terminate the pension plan instead of it going millions and millions of dollars in debt. Also, sometimes corporations should step in and say no we cannot afford it anymore. I can go on and on but I won't.
Edited on 6/17/2005 5:25 PM
Post by: tburky on June 17, 2005, 10:48:36 PM
Post by: DP3 on June 20, 2005, 12:00:43 AM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: stanski on June 20, 2005, 12:08:40 AM
quote:
Well who's fault is it for sighning one sided free trade agreements with other countries, and you can"t blame corprate America for wanting to leave with the high tax rates, and the high salaries. Why is the general motors car corporation in such defict because the average salary is about 25$ per hour, and 1000$ per car sold has to be put away into the pension fund, so as a director of a business were would you rather put your factory some place were you can pay minimun wage and someplace were your business can cut some corners but still turn a profit, or a place were you are going to show a loss 3 out of every 5 years. Do the math it is just simple business. For the people who boycott a product because a company moved there plant mexico, wake up smell the Columbian coffee, Put on your levis or Tommy jean(witch are made in thailand) get into your import car(Toyota honda mazda kia nissan ect.) and go about your day because saying lets boycott because a company decides it wants to survive in a global economy is a joke........
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I've got two surface choices: Green Scotch Brite Or 2000 Grit Polish.Choose your death grasshopper.
And you do know that the major expenditures (The only thing that can make a dent in earnings) in most auto plants are the costs to run the machinery? My father worked for an auto plant making glass, and the cost to run the furnaces was rediculously large compared to the salaries of its workers. The plant moved down to mexico and all its workers were either transferred or got an optional retirement with full benifits and a bonus (my father took the latter).
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stanski
Post by: Hammer3003 on June 20, 2005, 12:40:15 AM
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Zack Pelton
Bowl To Win!!!
Edited on 6/20/2005 0:35 AM
Post by: taylorj99 on June 20, 2005, 04:42:54 AM