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Author Topic: karma  (Read 6577 times)

robby

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karma
« on: November 23, 2011, 01:03:47 AM »
When or will there be anything new released in the karma line? March?


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dizzyfugu

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Re: karma
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, 02:41:08 AM »
What do you miss? Personally, I hardly see anything that's missing, maybe a urethane specimen as a replacement for the Avalanche, which in itself is a very good package, though. A PK17 version would be nice, too, but I guess that it would be much too close to the existing ones.


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charlest

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Re: karma
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, 05:43:58 AM »
Thomas,
 
You don't really want the Karma core in the urethane cover. It would flare too much and make it hook too early. Even Hammer modified their Vibe core to increase the RG and reduce the RG differential to get more length from their urethane coverstock.


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dizzyfugu

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Re: karma
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, 06:57:11 AM »
 



charlest wrote on 08.12.2011 6:43 AM:
Thomas,

 

You don't really want the Karma core in the urethane cover. It would flare too much and make it hook too early.
That's exactly what I meant! From a user's point of view, the Urethane Avalanche is a great package, esp. due to its low flare potential. The Karma core would not be necessary, but experience has shown us that marketing wants new stuff in the shelves - despite utility concerns - and that I fear that a Urethane Karma is lurking somewhere...

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kidlost2000

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Re: karma
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, 07:20:53 AM »
I wouldn't mind seeing the PK17 cover on a more aggressive core. Not sure how much difference there would be. May be the reason we don't see it.

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dizzyfugu

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Re: karma
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2011, 08:08:20 AM »
I'd love one, too, kind of Sapphire Zone remake or something like the red/black or green/black monster. Esp. the latter with a higher RG/higher RG diff. core (remember the "Double Death Caps", LOL? would be nice, as a snappier and more-moving ball in the Karma line.


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charlest

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Re: karma
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 08:57:45 AM »
Incredible difference.
Because the Danger Zone was so popular (the Virtual Gravity of its day, flippy backend for as solid that resulted in great carry power) people forget that the Sapphire Zone (PK 17 solid with core similar to the Danger Zone's) handled the same amount of oil but with a smoother overall ball path. It was as good a ball for people with hand as the Danger Zone was for all the fluffers that used it.
kidlost2000 wrote on 12/8/2011 8:20 AM:I wouldn't mind seeing the PK17 cover on a more aggressive core. Not sure how much difference there would be. May be the reason we don't see it.

"1 of 1." 


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kidlost2000

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Re: karma
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 02:53:48 PM »
True, but the Blue Ice was the more angular model for the snappy backend reaction. The Danger Zone wasn't bad but I actually liked the Sapphire and DZ2 better.
 
I have a NIB green/black Monster I can't wait to drill eventually. It was an all time favorite because of the PK17 pearl cover and aggressive core.


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charlest

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Re: karma
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2011, 03:23:16 PM »
I think that was the original Monster. It had a very large differential and quite a large backend back then. Wonder how much it will have on today's oils. Not much, I'm afraid. Let us know, if you get a chance.
 
I liked the control of the Red/Black Monster, much smaller differential. Still have a 15 and a 16. They're almost light oil balls now.
 
kidlost2000 wrote on 12/8/2011 3:53 PM:
True, but the Blue Ice was the more angular model for the snappy backend reaction. The Danger Zone wasn't bad but I actually liked the Sapphire and DZ2 better.
 
I have a NIB green/black Monster I can't wait to drill eventually. It was an all time favorite because of the PK17 pearl cover and aggressive core.


"1 of 1." 


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kidlost2000

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Re: karma
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2011, 04:45:09 PM »
I don't believe in todays oils. I consider it a sales gimmick. I have no problem with newer equipment today that uses PK17 and 18 hooking on "todays oils" without problem. Especially my Revolution Rebel DNA, Power Groove, and Slingshot. I sold a Double Helix earlier this year with less then 10 games that also had little problem on most of todays house shots I crossed.
 
I drilled up a Track Synergy ETS new last year. The ball flat out hooks. A lot more then I was expecting and a lot sooner then I was expecting. I think that is why for me so many of todays newer midline or less equipment is so great. It gives your the right half of the lane back for a lot longer.
 
Believe me when I can post something on the Monster I will. 


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dizzyfugu

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Re: karma
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, 01:03:34 AM »
 



kidlost2000 wrote on 08.12.2011 5:45 PM:
I don't believe in todays oils. I consider it a sales gimmick. I have no problem with newer equipment today that uses PK17 and 18 hooking on "todays oils" without problem.
Similar here. While modern lane conditioners are more viscous and might keep up the pattern shape longer, I hardly see enough of it on local lanes to warrant something like an oil ball. I even semi-retired my beloved Frankie May Gryphon, because I hardly see enough oil to play it more than 1 game on a so-called fresh lane. I can imagine that you face a true challenge with 10 year old equipment of a flat and soupy sport pattern, but NOT on what I frequently enmcounter in league and even tournaments. Even my latest ball, the Hell Raiser, was a gamble because I feared that I could hardly use it at all - thankfully the cover has very good length up front. Therefore, I'd appreciate something like the G/B or R/B Monsters. PK17 is still valid today, IMHO, but a core with a little punch would be nice. The Karma core would IMO be a good option here.

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charlest

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Re: karma
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2011, 03:48:30 AM »
Let me re-phrase that "today's oils" to when they use more than light oil.
 
For many years, most of the places I frequent have been parsimonious with their application of oil, as if there were a good reason to use any but the bare minimum of oil.This is the first year in a long time that I have not had to use balls like the Slingshot as part of my regular arsenal. I can use balls as strong as true medium oil balls like the Frantic and the Brawl. And let me tell you it feels good.


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kidlost2000

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Re: karma
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2011, 07:55:35 AM »
I'm very tempted with the Hell Raiser after using the Reckless and Misfit. I must admit the Reckless was a lot stronger then I was expecting and even the Misfit, drilled identical with a light 2000grit pad taken to it to get the shine off, is only a very small step down. I'm just not sure I would be able to use the Hell Raiser much, and would lower my scores trying to lol.
 
I chalk most of todays big hooking stuff up to lower rev or speed dominant players and maybe some tour players. For house shots and tournaments for many bowlers I think it is over kill. Most tournaments I go to are not heavy oiled and break down very quickly. Not ideal for super soakers by any means. 


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Brandon Riley

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Re: karma
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2011, 01:14:05 AM »
The difference between today's big hookers and the strong balls from the 90s is where the hook takes place.

The focus now is on creating hook on the back end of the lane with cleaner covers to get through the front part of the lane and then go sideways to create angle through the pins for better carry.  The Nexus solid is the perfect example of this ball motion. 

The big hookers from days past were much earlier and arcy, and saw much lower rg cores with covers that bit into the lane really early.  The powerkoil family is not as clean through the front as some of the other coverstocks we see nowadays. 

I would love to see Brunswick try a solid urethane karma or use a solid reactive cover that is more skid flippy.


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The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
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Brandon Riley
Brunswick Regional Staff

Urethane Game

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Re: karma
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2011, 06:27:58 AM »
Brunswick did have a "Special Pin" Urethane Danger Zone.  I forget what color pin it was but a friend of mine rolled one and it always looked pretty good to me.  Of course, that was in the dark ages.  Wood lanes and no 10-1 wet dry nightmares to contend with.

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