You think those things are bad, try Twister pins, the all synthetic pins. Now me, I liked them, they didn't carry for crap. Millions of 4's and 4-9's. Not many 10 pins. But, I thought that was what was great about them. You couldn't just throw messenger pins around like balsa wood. Flush was good. Oh well... A challenge to high scores, geez, what a concept.....