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Author Topic: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer  (Read 5007 times)

LuckyLefty

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Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« on: November 21, 2005, 10:20:05 AM »
Recently went to Brunswick's insider website and found all the span's and pitches for the brunswick staffers.

All the staffers or most had reverse pitch in their fingers.
Forward and reverse in thumb varied but universally not a one was listed as having any lateral pitch.  If you are slated to be a brunswick staffer you are going to be born with a 0 lateral pitch thumb!

Not always the case as Dave Davis has a 5/16 under palm thumb!

Funny because it seems about two years ago I read in his book that Parker bohn used reverse(he still does) and left lateral(under palm).

I was talking with one of our top drillers in this area and he said he just puts every bowler 1/4 under palm unless they say different.  Right for righties and left for lefties!  All his guys can hook it!

I myself actually believe in looking at where thumb points in relation to hand but find that MOST people need some under palm lateral...not all...just most.

Wanna be a Brunswick staffer...be born with a 0 lateral pitch thumb!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I see people with under palm lateral pitch anatomy using lateral out pitch...I note they are good up boards but struggle with inside lines!
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2005, 11:35:26 PM »
I put the point in about the local old time driller because I don't really believe in that either.

Each hand is different...that is why I found having all the brunswick staffers to be 0 left and right to be a statistical anomaly.  Not likely to happen over a group of 5 or 6 or 10 people.  As you stated all thumbs are different.

Because my thumb wants to point closer to my middle/ring finger than another's who may want to point to their index finger I find that if I get in teh 0 lateral pitch area I start to clip the corner of my nail.

As do others with my style of hand.  Also I think I remember seeing that Parker was 1/4 lateral left from his book...Now 0.  If I guys anatomy dictates a lateral under palm pitch and he goes 0 are adjustments made thru the finger lateral pitches?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2005, 07:59:38 AM »
For me above....Ouch!  I better cut the corner of my thumb nail....Off!

"Yiiiii!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS by the way the above post was made somewhat tongue in cheek.  As I believe all hands are different... with most falling slightly in the lateral under palm area...but not all
PPS please explain how a 1/4 under thumb can use 0 and not hurt thumb and get the right turn on ball?  Seriously....what adjustments are made?
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)

Edited on 11/22/2005 8:52 AM
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BackToBasics

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2005, 10:04:01 AM »
It's possible that Parker's thumb can use a variety of lateral pitches and still exit cleanly, and that's without any other compensation.  I can use anywhere from 1/4 right to 1/8 left with no problems..  I've adjusted the laterals often in conjunctin with finger pitch changes to change my tilt.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2005, 10:12:58 AM »
I can use 3/8 left(lefty) to 1/16 left without cutting into corner of thumb.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS Trigger...this is point...thumbs are different...Unless you are a brunswick staffer...then all are the same!  Laterally!
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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VBP-Dustin

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2005, 10:16:37 AM »
wow i guess im zero zero  no reverse or forward and no lateral    unless its my spare ball with has 1/8 forward and no lateral   where do i sign up for the brunswick staff?  

They dont make the Vortex 2 do they?  no well im outta luck    although the vapor zone is a great ball  i still love the v2 series
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KDawg77

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2005, 10:21:10 AM »
I'm with Dustin. I'm Zero-Zero, too.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2005, 10:25:04 AM »
They are just waitin for ya!

But seriously...Brunsrich...I am really seeing what are adjustments that can get a 1/4 under palm lateral thumb like mine to 0?

Advantages?

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2005, 12:31:12 PM »
If I could slip in just a few more...I realize I'm getting great answers here from two very knowledgeable people. (thanks).

We can agree that some people have different laterals in their hand.  ie parker and I tend to want to be under palm(laterally).  Do you start to encounter nail corner clipping on guys who tend to be lateral under anatomy when they are using 0?

Regarding Brunsrich comments on going away from pocket when out lateral and towards pocket when lateral under palm...are you talking about ball path?

Because if arm path... I have noticed those with considerable lateral under pitch or more properly I should say...those who use MORE lateral under palm pitch then their anatomy needs tend to swing arm OUTSIDE the ball path in order to keep the ball on line.  (Somewhat like a golfer who has a strong grip if he releases tends to have a follow thru that is called inside out...or clubhead goes outside the starting ball path.)

Those that use less lateral under than their anatomy calls for seem to go inside with the hand(in relation to the ball path) and then many loop back out to end up in standard follow thru position.



Thanks,

Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

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KWags1977

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2005, 10:10:36 PM »
Thank you for taking the time out of your busy week to post on this Rick.

Do you do any seminars or work with players out side of the PBA.  As a player that's looking to get to the next level, I would really like to learn from somebody who I consider the best in bowling knowledge.  Very rarely do people come to my area that have the info or the ability to progress a player to the next level.  

I live in the NJ-North East PA area...Maybe you know of somebody in these areas who can go beyond what the certified coaches can teach.
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2005, 11:16:07 AM »
Brunsrich I apprectiate the detailed answer.

I want to examine a little the nail clipping issue.

According to the Bill Taylor book...from 30 years ago. The only definitive book on drilling in a long time!  IF one has a 3/8 lateral under palm thumb(according to the old coke bottle test) and puts 0 lateral palm pitch in his ball...his thumb is essentially diagonal in his thumbhole...going from one side on top of hole to the other side at the bottom of the hole...thus putting the corner of the thumb nail in contact with the side of teh hole.

I feel this right on the drilling table for me...before throwing or moving or anything.  Tell me more about this because frankly I am not in awe at any of my recent results!

As far as ball position at the top of the swing....I must confess to not being a person who has his hand dead in the center of the ball at the top of backsweing either!  Hand more on the outside than dead neutral with ball inside slightly but not a full roller position.

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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BrunsNick

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2005, 04:33:56 PM »
The only problem with using the Bill Taylor book as a manual for drilling is that 99% of people you drill for will not be able to have a clean release!
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2005, 05:48:03 PM »
No criticism the response speed here...In between winning two tournaments with your guys you've gotten back to us here and it is appreciated.

But my question is....is there no validity to Bill Taylors example of a thumb that tests at 1/4 under palm he says when it is put in a ball that has a thumbhole drilled 0 lateral pitch that the thumb rests instead of straight down the shaft of the thumbhole but instead diagonally touching one corner at the top of the hole and the other corner of the hole with the other side of the thumb.

True...Not true...well sort of?

It sure seems to make sense to me!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year!  Don't bowl me the second two games though!  (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
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Verbs

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2005, 06:44:23 PM »
To add to volsfan846 comments on experimentation, If you are drilling for comfort, it is best to pitch holes in the direction you are having issues.

For instance, if you are feeling pressure, callusing, etc. on the side of your thumb closest to your index finger, try pitching your thumbhole a little bit more in that direction.

For example, if you are currently using 1/4" towards the palm and are feeling pressure on the index finger side of your thumb, try changing your pitch to 1/8" towards the palm. If you are still feeling pressure, go another 1/8" to zero lateral. Keep experimenting until you get the feel you desire. Which, to me, is equal pressure from side to side and front to back. And that is not just for the thumbhole. That also means fingers too.

One other point to make. Please make sure and have your grip checked at least every other year by a reputable Pro Shop operator in your area. As we all know, our bodies change as we get older. This includes our hands also.

There Brunsrick. Now go get some sleep.

Verbswick
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charlesrob

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Re: Modern age - no lateral pitch as a brunswick staffer
« Reply #14 on: November 25, 2005, 06:55:34 PM »
Lucky Lefty
What you are saying does make sense. The proof is a bowler who has calluses on the sides, front or back of the thumb from incorrect pitches,and/or broken or clipped nails. When an experienced driller changes pitches these go away.
What feels awkward on the bench, may change in the dynamics of a persons swing and release.
Years ago ball drillers used lateral palm pitch to help full roller bowlers to change to finger tip grip. When they would keep their old release they could not get out of the ball cleanly, and would usually track over finger or thumb holes and kill ball reaction. When they would make a clean release they would see a good shot. I am constantly amazed at the bowlers increasing level of technical knowledge, especially on this forum.
Many of the previous posts are Gems and should be saved for reference.
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