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Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: Leftyhi-trak on February 01, 2006, 03:31:58 PM

Title: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on February 01, 2006, 03:31:58 PM
I just picked up a zone classic to compliment an OI that i have. After throwing them side by side i am very puzzled at the reaction I got from the classic. It gave me the length i was looking for but it had a really tough time revving up. The surface on the OI is 800 scotchbrite polished with 1500 grit polish. It revs up a ton and much earlier but still gives me a boat load more pop on the backend compared to the classic. The lanes were a medium volume 37ft pattern. I guess I was expecting more rev and jump off the burn than what i saw. The ZC is in box currently, my question is do you believe that the stock cover was inhibbiting the roll characteristics of the ZC? (low RG, i expected much more core turnover). Both have the same drill pattern on them (pin slightly above edge of ring finger, mb placed just left of thumb which should be on the strong side).  Sorry just don't quite understand the reaction. I have thrown Danger Zones before and had them rev like crazy even with duller surfaces. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Edited on 2/2/2006 0:29 AM
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: agroves on February 01, 2006, 11:56:50 PM
Same coverstock.  There is a break in period with the activator shell.  Golly gee gosh, my Rampage even needed a couple of games to really start popping on the backend.  I would give it a few more games and then see what you come up with.

Otherwise, prepare the surface the same on both and see what happens.

Andrew
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Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: charlest on February 02, 2006, 04:48:32 AM
Leftyhi-trak,

I am also puzzled, if all is as you say it is. The stock surface of the ZC should even be more aggressive than the finish you put on your OI, which should be the more flippy. Normally that zone asymmetric core seems to add length and much more backend to the same cover plus it's still a low RG core.

If there's enough side weight, you could add a weight hole past your PAP on the ZC to add some flare, but I'd adjust the cover first before putting any extra holes in it.

Why not try the same cover prep as your OI, AFTER trying the ZC for a few more practice games PLUS on another oil pattern, just to double check.

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Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: BowlNavy on February 02, 2006, 05:31:14 AM
What color is the pin? Green pin is regular ZC, while a ZC with a Red pin is a ball with a signifigantly different coverstock. Do a search for "red pin" in this forum, and you may find much more information than I know personally.

On Edit: My bad. I didn't mean a different coverstock, I just meant a weaker version.

Edited on 2/2/2006 8:18 PM
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: agroves on February 02, 2006, 07:08:50 AM
quote:
What color is the pin? Green pin is regular ZC, while a ZC with a Red pin is a ball with a signifigantly different coverstock. Do a search for "red pin" in this forum, and you may find much more information than I know personally.


Not a different coverstock, same cover, just harder.

Andrew
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Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: charlest on February 02, 2006, 09:21:51 AM
quote:
What color is the pin? Green pin is regular ZC, while a ZC with a Red pin is a ball with a signifigantly different coverstock. Do a search for "red pin" in this forum, and you may find much more information than I know personally.


ah, yesssss!!!!
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: heckler17 on February 02, 2006, 09:37:00 AM
The classic zone red pin has the monster slay/R coverstock with the regular classic zone core.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: RichardHead on February 02, 2006, 11:02:07 AM
quote:

"It's activator, It's just harder. The same thing happened with the Blazing."


This came up over on BowlingBallReviews.Com also. Someone suggested that the ZCRP is a blem as was the hard BI:

quote:

"The Red Pin Zone Classic, is a blem. There where roughly 2000 of these made where the Activator cover cured too fast, making them harder(around 79 on the hardness scale). They will be much cleaner through the heads and the mids and have a smooth backend reaction. Very similar to the Monster SlayR in reaction."


Then someone had a reply that made a good deal of sense:

quote:

"... how can you make a blem with a different pin color?

hmm... interesting question...
YOU CANT.
before the cover is poured the core is lowered into place using the pin as a stick.
then after pouring is complete the stick is shaved to surface level.

the red pin is made with PowerKoil LS.
the same coverstock at the Monster SlayR.
but with the asymetrical core of the zone classic."


I do not own one so I cannot confirm.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: shelley on February 02, 2006, 11:07:03 AM
quote:

quote:

"... how can you make a blem with a different pin color?

hmm... interesting question...
YOU CANT.
before the cover is poured the core is lowered into place using the pin as a stick.
then after pouring is complete the stick is shaved to surface level.

the red pin is made with PowerKoil LS.
the same coverstock at the Monster SlayR.
but with the asymetrical core of the zone classic."


I do not own one so I cannot confirm.


You can if you drill out the existing pin and put in a new one.  No, the original pin may not have been red, but an appropriately-sized drill bit can save a batch of 2000 balls from going to the scrap heap.

SH
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Strider on February 02, 2006, 11:44:42 AM
Give it about 20 games and see how it reacts before you change anything.  I have a Red Pin and it got quite a bit stronger after the "break in" period.  At first, it was allergic to oil and almost as weak (hook wise) as my plastic ball.  What I liked best about it was that it was total arc; no flip whatsoever.  Now it's a little stronger than my Blue Hot Flame, and the backend is much more pronounced.  Still not flippy, but much stronger than right out of the box.
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Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: tjj300 on February 02, 2006, 12:29:34 PM
Does the break-in period correspond to the formation of a track?  If you were to give a light scuffing of the ball when new, does that cut down the break-in time?
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: RSalas on February 02, 2006, 12:54:49 PM
quote:
This topic has been discussed a 1000 times on here and you people still get your facts wrong. It's unbelievable.


JoeRich, you keep forgetting.  Something posted on another Internet forum by an anonymous user is gospel.  What the representatives of the ball company say is irrelevant.  
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on February 02, 2006, 04:04:33 PM
Now that you guys got off on a tangent. It is a green pin. I just was baffled as it really did not want to rev up it just loped. We put it on a determinator to check and make sure the mb was placed correctly which it was. As I was frustrated after posting i shot a few games today at a local house and still saw the same thing. We brought it in the shop and cut the surface to match I'll be off in a few hours to a synthetic house to try there. I just hope it was surface expending too much energy but knowing the pattern it just doesn't seem right.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: RSalas on February 02, 2006, 04:18:49 PM
Hi-trak, just out of curiosity, what is the locator line angle on that ball?  That is, what is the angle formed by the line that passes through the pin and PAP, and the line that passes through the pin and PSA locator?
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on February 02, 2006, 09:55:59 PM
BC,

probably around 75-80 degree. Shot on the synthetic and got barely a wrinkle even with the new surface. We  even brought surface up to 1000 and hit it with 2000 polish and still 8-10 boards weaker than Inferno and 5-6 weaker than a shined up 1000 grit v2. Weaker meaning both squaring up a few more boards up front + also boards of backend movement. I could get some rev out of the ball at the finer surface but no turnover of core.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: RSalas on February 03, 2006, 04:07:45 PM
Zoy.  That's a pretty high LL angle;  not sure how much more you can do with that...

One last question (at least, until the next one):  Does this ball already have an XH?  If not, you may want to consider a flare-increasing hole.
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on February 03, 2006, 06:45:16 PM
no xh YEt. My inferno gets 4.5-5" of flare about 6-7 rings not real wide. The ZC gets about the same amount of flare and rings just a little closer together. I have always been one to tame down covers due to my high track and minimal axis tilt. The inferno has been a god send because i got great length with minimal cover tweaking. I bought this (ZC) after hearing that it went slightly longer but still had jump of the spot and i knew it had the same cover. I will punch a hole to increase flare but if nothing then its hitting the classifieds.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: bshannon on February 03, 2006, 07:02:22 PM
How close to the thumb is the mass bias? The closer to thumb the more even the reaction.
I've got both balls in my bag now. The classic is 5" pin to pap layout with the mass bias in the strong position (1.5" right of the thumb) and the OI is 4" pin to pap with the CG kicked slightly right. The classis is 2-3 feet longer at the breakpoint and much more angular than the OI. Both have an OOB finish on them.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: Leftyhi-trak on February 03, 2006, 08:00:46 PM
1/2" i would understand slightly more even but this thing is a dart. I get more twist with my power groove pearl and slightly earlier reaction.
Title: Re: Reaction question on Zone classic
Post by: RSalas on February 04, 2006, 11:49:15 AM
quote:
The ZC gets about the same amount of flare and rings just a little closer together.


Ah, there's the key.  An XH to open up the flares may well be just the ticket for you.  I did this with my ZC, and it changed the reaction *significantly.*
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...