Post by: dizzyfugu on April 18, 2007, 09:33:37 PM
I have the opportunity to get a virgin 15lbs. Renegade (http://www.123bowl.com/ball.asp?ballid=1023) with a 4-5" pin, top weight unknown, for relatively low money.
I did some legwork, and as far as I was able to figure out it is a ball for lighter conditions with solid PK17D coverstock, probably falling between a Power Groove and the Rampage in strength. I am considering this piece with some sheen surface and a weak drilling (pin above bridge) as an alternative to my Sahara and Pure Hammer.
Has anyone (except for the single review) experience with this piece, or can tell something about the PK17D which was also used on the Battle Zones? Is it just a weaker version of PK17 (similar to the Dry/R coverstock), or can I basically expect more length but also more pop once the ball hits the dry?
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you in advance.
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Edited on 4/19/2007 5:32 AM
Post by: charlest on April 19, 2007, 05:50:26 AM
It is most definitely NOT PK 17D. If anything it is small bit stronger than PK 18. It hooks as strongly as my Nemesis with the same drill, but the backend is slightly more controlled. These have plenty of hook and plenty of power.
I have one I use regularly and love it and its stablemate, the Vengeance, so much, that I have one more of each NIB saved for future use.
It has an RG min of 2.54 and max of 2.577 - differential of .037.
Both hit stronger than expected and much stronger than average. Their coverstocks are also much thicker, around 1", compared to current ones of 5/8" - 3/4".
Worth their weight in GOLD! Drill it and use it. You will be pleasantly surprised.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 19, 2007, 06:17:47 AM
Hmmmmm.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Post by: dizzyfugu on April 19, 2007, 06:36:45 AM
Thank you CharlesT for your impressions. From your info I'd guess that the Renegade is rather an arcing ball? A controlled back end is quite what I am looking for, I'd try to have it set up for a late arc, and the not-so-high differential and higher RG should help. I am just worried that the coverstock was so strong... In another souce, a German pro shop which has a vast archive of older ball infos, the Renegade IS declared to have the Pro Traction coverstock (http://www.bowling-shop-berlin.de/Revolu/Powerper.html).
Maybe polish or Rough Buff will help? Did you play with the coverstock prep on your specimen?
And, as a funny side note, Lanemaster's BigR Bang uses a coverstock with the same name... oh, the world is so small!
I am really intrigued by this piece, and it will be relatively cheap (less than a NIB Power Groove). I have a female bowler at my club who uses one, but since ist is only 10lbs. and she just drops the ball with 2 revs until it enters the pin deck, no real info could be gathered from there
Thank you so far, anyone else?
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Edited on 4/19/2007 6:38 AM
Post by: dizzyfugu on April 19, 2007, 06:42:14 AM
Revolution Bowling: Renegade
Distinguishing Characteristics - This Sky Blue Reactive (with white and yellow logos and pin) uses what Revolution calls Pro Traction reactive cover stock. It's no secret that Revolution is a part of the Brunswick group. Revolution's Pro Traction is an aggressive reactive cover from the Danger Zone family.
The Renegade comes with a 600-grit box sand and a light polish. This cover tunes easily with sanding and polishing for roll/reaction changes. The core in the Renegade is a new look. The main core body resembles a diamond with the top and bottom cut off. The medium Rg (2.558) core offers a medium/low Rg differential (.037) which allows stronger (higher flare) layouts without sacrificing control and back-end predictability. Drill the Renegade in any two-piece manner.
Caveat - The Renegade hooks more, of the two Revolution releases this month. The aggressive cover and core power can cause this one to hook early on dry heads and too much speed/revs can squirt on tight backends. The right-side ball was label-drilled (pin at leverage), and to test the tech- sheet claim of stronger yet predictable drills, the left-side ball had stack leverage with hole on PAP. On fresh oil/strip, the Renegade is very clean to the midlane with a strong turn and a heavy roll through the pins. The ball played great up the wall and gave a 7-8 board swing in the head oil. We rolled a few games in the track area (around 10-board) to dry up the track. As we dried up the track, we could chase the oil inside and maintain that 7-8 board swing. In the dry track, the ball hooked and stood up early. Our lefty had the entire left side of the lane on fresh pattern and to light carry-down.
When we took this one to the tight/carry-down condition, our stroke shot was an edge. On the pattern where some of this month's balls worked to tip the corner, we could play this one down and in. As we moved across the lane, we found the Renegade gave us about a 5-board swing on the tight backends. We like to play the ABC Tournament tight, so we tried the Renegade on a 20-to-16 shot on the tight condition. This ball worked inside and tight with great consistency and predictability: great carry on this tight line. Our lefty-tester's release power was a detriment on the tight condition; not much swing area. A tight alignment worked well and a light scuff (green pad) did open the lane about 8 boards more.
Found it under http://www.bowlersjournal.com/instruction/pro_shop/PRO_jun00.htm
Some more legwork can sometimes help, but nevertheless, any personal impressions are still welcome
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: DP3 on April 19, 2007, 11:31:07 AM
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Post by: charlest on April 19, 2007, 02:16:48 PM
quote:
The Renegade was a staple in my arsenal when I was bowling JBTs and Youth tournaments in the early 00s. This was the first ball I tried with an axis layout, I believe it was 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 with a large hole on the axis. This ball was money playing the track on any THS. I don't remember anything I ever had that rolled similar. Now it would be for the lighter side of mediums but if you're heavy handed you can use this on mediums and longer patterns if you have fresher backends. This thing doesn't flare in the fronts, it saves all motion and continuation for the backend.
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-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Dj,
Maybe you have a LOT of speed, but that ball with its stock finish of 600 grit is NOT for the lighter side of mediums. Mine's drilled with the pin under the center of the bridge with the CG kicked out slightly, no weight hole: roughly 5.25" x 4" for me. I still had to lighten up the surface (finer grit or light polish) to handle medium oil. With a finer grit, maybe 800 - 1000, it'll still handle heavier oil than that. With a more normal 4" or even a 3.5" pin I imagine it'll handle medium-heavy with no sweat.
It hanldes the same amount of oil as my Nemesis with the same drill and the Nemesis has a 1000 grit polish on it. The Nemesis has a little more backend due to the higher flare.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: charlest on April 19, 2007, 02:22:36 PM
quote:
Thank you CharlesT for your impressions. From your info I'd guess that the Renegade is rather an arcing ball? A controlled back end is quite what I am looking for, I'd try to have it set up for a late arc, and the not-so-high differential and higher RG should help. I am just worried that the coverstock was so strong... In another souce, a German pro shop which has a vast archive of older ball infos, the Renegade IS declared to have the Pro Traction coverstock (http://www.bowling-shop-berlin.de/Revolu/Powerper.html).
Maybe polish or Rough Buff will help? Did you play with the coverstock prep on your specimen? --------------------
DizzyFugu -
I have a light polish on mine (maybe 1000 grit polish) and a slightly weak drill: 5.25" x 4" with pin under center of the bridge. If I use it on too little oil, it can react with a more flippy breakpoint.
I'd suggest trying a similar drill and the stock surface. You can easily change the surface in any number of ways, including Rough Buff (just be careful with RB). Polish will get you more length, of course, and enable it to handle less oil.
If anything, its partner, the Vengeance is an even better ball. I paid $40 on Ebay, SHIPPED, for them and all have a 2-3" pin. It too needs oil and it is a pearl with an even higher RG.
Great quotes from Bowler's Journal. I'm going to save it.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: DP3 on April 19, 2007, 03:30:46 PM
--------------------
-DJ Marshall
...The Twelve In a Row Pro Shop
Post by: charlest on April 19, 2007, 04:33:31 PM
I can't even think of trying it on less than a medium oil. Never even tried it polished as the Vengeance covers that terrotory (when I use them as stable mates) so well.
As a point of general info, Revolution introduced them as their first balls meant for the US market. Previously all Revolution balls were desigend and marketed for overseas use.
That "ProTraction" cover is strictly reacrtive. I think Track also used that name or one very similar to it to denote a particle coverstock.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: dizzyfugu on April 20, 2007, 01:54:45 AM
quote:
I have a light polish on mine (maybe 1000 grit polish) and a slightly weak drill: 5.25" x 4" with pin under center of the bridge. If I use it on too little oil, it can react with a more flippy breakpoint.
Hi CharlesT,
yes, I was thinking about something similar for a drill. With my PAP and the 4-5" pin the pin would end up above the brigde, and I thought about putting the CG at 45-60° from PAP to smooth out the reaction downlane. Alternatively, I consider a simple label drilling with this one, since I do not have this setup in my arsenal and had had a TPC Player some time ago with this setup that I liked very well for its tamer back end reaction.
I have a rather slow speed but a good release, and early hooking balls are a bit of problem for me. OOB the ball is supposed to come 600 grit plus "a little polish", whatever this means. I have a picture of the ball I am about to get, and it looks glossy, though not mirror-like like a true polished ball (e. g. the Red Zone).
Thank you all for your input!
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: charlest on April 20, 2007, 08:24:29 AM
No matter. Decide how you want to drill it, try it as it come sout of the box. Then change the cover as desired. The cover can be almost anything you need or want.
Unless you polish it and then use it on too little oil, this is not, in my opinion, a ball that needs to be smoothed out. It's not a urethane ball, of course, but it is a fairly smooth reacting ball. With my drill, described above, I rarely got a flip reaction. Sometimes, on too little oil, it was more flippy, but still an arcing reaction.
Good luck.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: dizzyfugu on April 20, 2007, 09:41:56 AM
If it works out, I'll have it weighed anyway just to see if there are drilling limits or needs. But I guess I'll end up with a "simple" label drilling, if nothing technically stands in the way. I am missing such aball in my bag, and the Renegade sound like a good base.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: allstarbowling-Joe on April 21, 2007, 01:48:07 PM
If interested I still have a load of
NIB 16# Renegades and Vegenances. Also
have a few left of the IZEs and a IST.
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Post by: dizzyfugu on April 21, 2007, 02:28:21 PM
).... and expect a totally pointless review on this ball in the future, for a 7-year-old overseas case. I am looking forward to it, something to fill the summer gap with
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: charlest on April 21, 2007, 03:06:25 PM
quote:
FYI
If interested I still have a load of
NIB 16# Renegades and Vegenances. Also
have a few left of the IZEs and a IST.
--------------------Come visit us for all your bowling needs:
http://www.allstarbowling.com
Joe,
What's the price shipped to Oregon, zip 97352?
Thanks.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: dizzyfugu on April 22, 2007, 03:10:36 AM
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: dizzyfugu on April 30, 2007, 02:06:46 PM
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5351648 (CG mark colored in red)
http://www.putfile.com/pic.php?img=5351647
Man, this ball lokks so DULL. Solid ocean blue (much like an Impulse Zone prototype?), only 2 engravings. True stealth!
And the surface finish... well, if this is OOB, I must say that it is neither a high gloss polish nor a sanded surface. You cannot see any sanding lines under the finish, yet it feels and looks rather sheen. Maybe a compound finish, one of the few Brunswick balls in the 2000 era that went "single buff"?
"600 base grit plus some light polish?" Hmmm. At least, looks and feels interesting and should yield with a PK18 derivate good traction. I guess I'll keep it this way, or even apply a true high grit base plus polish to play outside lines with it.
Can't wait to punch it up, nbut I guess I'll wait until my Awesome Finish arrives. And I also cannot wait to see the face of my ball driller when I unveil this "blast from the past"...
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: charlest on April 30, 2007, 06:39:44 PM
All the info says the surface is 600 grit. Believe me it acts like it.
AGain, I guarantee it's stronger than PK 17. I can't tell you the nitty gritty details, if needs be. I suspect it is stronger than PK 18, but smoother like PK 17. (PK 18 is flippy.)
You can put any finish on it that you like. Sanding: 8000, 1000, 1500, 2000 etc. And any level of polishing.
Aince RG diff is relatively low, keep the pin-PAP distance 5" or less and 3" or more. 4" - 4.5" is good. Mine is at 5" but under the center of the bridge,
This ball is MONEY!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."