Author Topic: scorchin clipping the fingers..help ! (Read 4295 times)

alzgarvin · « **on:** February 22, 2006, 01:44:12 PM »

There may be no cure but I have a fellow league bowler who came to me with his newly drilled Scorchin. It is clipping the fingers and or the thumb...Here is the set up. Pin 3/4 inch below and right of ring at 5 oclock. CG is stacked below ( 2 inch pin) with CG just below center of grip and 1 3/4 " right (positive) with no weight hole. This guy is a righty with very low rev rate and slow speed. He throws the ball great and gets good reaction and hit but the balls initial track appears to hit both middle finger edge and thumb hole on left of thumb. I don't know for sure but this thing may be starting lower and reverse flaring towards hole or holes. I informed him that the guy drilled him wrong as the layout is 1E and this clearly warns of this. But he loves the look but hates the sound. I told him I would jump on this board and beg for a solution with a well placed weight hole. The flare is not very wide as much as I thought I would see, so wondering if starts to flare down and then rises back to finger and thumb. Ball does not roll out and actually arcs nice and then finishes quite well for his lack of rev.....also the ball didn't seem to thump until game 3 or only when he removed his Master Power Paw. I suggested getting a little more side roll but he doesn't want to change style. He also has a Columbia Wicked drilled almost exact that does not hit holes. Sorry so long winded but wanted to give full details on first post. Thanks, Al

Old Coach · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:35:58 AM »

From you description, it just about sounds like an inverted track. The ball driller should have seen this from looking at his old ball track. I think any good ball driller would correct a mistake like this. That is why it is important to go to a GOOD driller as happy bowlers bring them more business. Suggest he go back to the person who drilled it and see what they will do for him. Hitting the finger and or thumb hole breaks contact with the lanes and will not give him a consistant role. Good Luck!

thfonz98 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 23, 2006, 09:46:44 AM »

couldnt a weight hole help "pull" the track away from the holes? where i dont know(just remember reading here before)?
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alzgarvin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 23, 2006, 10:01:05 AM »

Thanks for the replies, his ball driller is not sure how to fix...I am sure if we tell him where to put a weight hole he would do it...Just trying to avoid plug and redrill....also he likes the reaction so much that a higher flare safe zone drilling may not give him the earlier and stronger roll that he needs. Anyone know how to fix with a weight hole?..I am thinking a weight hole low will raise the bow tie and one high will lower it, but if his track flares inverted I am not sure either will fix it...also an inverted flare may hit even with a 1-4 L drill anyway. HELP !!

thanks, Al

BrunsBob · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2006, 09:46:11 AM »

Yeah, pretty much what he said ^^^^^^.

RoB LAW
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I'm gettin' old, I'm hurtin', but I've got Brunswick balls.......Color me competitive.

alzgarvin · « **Reply #5 on:** February 26, 2006, 08:24:02 PM »

quote:
Put the weight hole on the PAL - Positive Axis Line (which some people refer to it as the Vertical Axis Line or VAL), 3 inches directly below his positive axis point (PAP). This weight hole is called a "flare increasing, narrow point raising" weight hole. The size of the weight hole will be dependent on how much side weight is currently in the ball and how much is available to take out (up to a negative 1 ounce). Generally, the size of the weight hole should be 1 1/8" around by 2" deep before it starts to affect the flare separation. This should alleviate the reverse flaring issue.
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Tod Grams
Brunswick Bowling Ball R&D Engineer

Brunswick - The Past, Present and Future of Bowling

Thanks Tod, will verify his PAP..set up his weight hole and drill it for him...I'll let you know the results. This makes sense to me, I know it should have been fixed when drilled originally but bottom line is keeping this Brunswick owner happy. Sorry for the late reply, but just got back in town. Thanks, Al

Cranking_Inferno · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2006, 01:21:53 AM »

I have a high track.. and ALL my balls must have a pin out.. i usually drill 4 inch pins only... the reason is because of the bowtie.. or the tightest crossing of my flare ... if you drill a ball with a pin below the fingers and u are a high track player... you have a good chance of clipping the holes.

Basically this will always happen unless he changes his release, or gets another ball with a 3.5 to 4.5 inch pin.
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Arsenal:

EPX-T1 - Heavy oil
Action- Heavy to Medium oil
Original Inferno - Medium oil
Smoking Inferno - Medium to Dry
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Cranking_Inferno · « **Reply #7 on:** February 27, 2006, 01:53:42 PM »

LISTEN IDIOT... CALL CREATIVE MINDS PRO SHOP IN MORENO VALLEY AND TALK TO DANNY ONTREVEROS WHO HAS BEEN DRILLING FOR 25 YEARS.. HE WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING.. IT IS A FACT. I KNOW ITS A FACT BECAUSE I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM.... SO HE STARTED GETTING ME PIN OUTS AND THE CLIPPING STOPPED.... YOU DONT KNOW EVERYTHING... SO SHUT UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUISNESS YOU LOOK LIKE A TOTAL FOOL.... A WEIGHT HOLE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM HAS A VERY SMALL CHANCE OF CHANGING THE BOWTIE... BUT BOTH COMBONATIONS ACAN HELP.. BUT NOT AS SIGNIFGANTLY AS USING LONGER PIN OUTS TO GET YOU FLARE BOWTIE HIGHER AND FURTHER OF THE HOLES,, YOU LAMER

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Arsenal:

EPX-T1 - Heavy oil
Action - Heavy to Medium oil
Original Inferno - Medium oil
Smoking Inferno - Medium to Dry
Blue Dot - Spare ball

jls · « **Reply #8 on:** February 27, 2006, 02:07:10 PM »

sounds to me that if this starts in game 3 and this bowler has less speed, a dull cover is burning up to much for a game 3 situation, try using brunswick's ruff buff polish, it's the best selling polish we have in our shop. it will give the ball a little more length and more backend, and if needed, he can go to brunswick's fctory finish high gloss,
if he was hitting the holes in game one, that might be a different story,
possibly drilling the fingers deeper may help there, but since you say it started in the 3 rd game, i will assume that the lanes are dryer and the scorchin inferno is not for dry in the box finish, i believe the box finish is 600 sanded. you need oil for that. so i would try the polish first.
good luck, putting the weight hole as stated above probably will also work, however it may tame the ball down too much in oil. thats why i would do it one step at a time.

Edited on 2/27/2006 2:59 PM

Edited on 2/27/2006 3:00 PM

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 27, 2006, 08:25:24 PM »

quote:
LISTEN IDIOT... CALL CREATIVE MINDS PRO SHOP IN MORENO VALLEY AND TALK TO DANNY ONTREVEROS WHO HAS BEEN DRILLING FOR 25 YEARS.. HE WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING.. IT IS A FACT. I KNOW ITS A FACT BECAUSE I HAD THE SAME PROBLEM.... SO HE STARTED GETTING ME PIN OUTS AND THE CLIPPING STOPPED.... YOU DONT KNOW EVERYTHING... SO SHUT UP AND MIND YOUR OWN BUISNESS YOU LOOK LIKE A TOTAL FOOL.... A WEIGHT HOLE TO CORRECT THE PROBLEM HAS A VERY SMALL CHANCE OF CHANGING THE BOWTIE... BUT BOTH COMBONATIONS ACAN HELP.. BUT NOT AS SIGNIFGANTLY AS USING LONGER PIN OUTS TO GET YOU FLARE BOWTIE HIGHER AND FURTHER OF THE HOLES,, YOU LAMER

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Arsenal:

EPX-T1 - Heavy oil
Action - Heavy to Medium oil
Original Inferno - Medium oil
Smoking Inferno - Medium to Dry
Blue Dot - Spare ball

Sorry but Mr. Ontreveros is mistaken. I track high and I can but a pin under my middle finger and even in my track with a high flaring ball/ flare increasing weight hole combination. I have a Power Groove Dry/R drilled like this and a weight hole pitched parallel to the my axis kept me off the fingers and thumb! A hole pitched correctly can produce flare nearly covering the ball!
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Everyone get all the breaks but me. I earn every pin I get.

agroves · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2006, 03:53:58 AM »

5 1/2" pap here, I use pin low layouts without any problems, the length of the pin/to cg means squat in regards to hitting the fingers.

Andrew
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jls · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2006, 10:56:52 AM »

tod
why do you think the ball did not start clipping the holes untill the 3rd game.
to me it should have done it from the beginning, i feel that the coverstock
at 600 sanded is too strong for the third game, especially with his slower ball speed. by taming the ball down with a balance hole, do you think the ball might be too tame for him in the first game.
i have seen this before, and sometimes putting the polish on the ball does solve this. also ruff buff polish will still work for this bowler in the first game since it is a low gloss polish.

Bowler19 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 01, 2006, 11:09:08 AM »

I had a friend with a similar problem he was clipping the fingers at the end of the lane.

What we did was put a balance hole next to the thumb over a little and brought the ball back to almost 0 side weight and it corrected the problem.

Aside from redrilling the ball or putting a hole in it try a smoother surface maybe 1000-1200 grit the reaction may be a later and it wont react as much but it may get rid of the problem
--------------------
Bowler19

A winner is one who keeps on trying
Visionary Test Staff Member

alzgarvin · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2006, 11:37:24 AM »

Thanks for the great explanation Tod, I kept him after league on Mon. am and we nailed down his PAP with tape and his plastic "non-flare" ball. His PAP is 5 9/16 over and 7/8 up. I marked the future weight hole if and when needed 3" below PAP on VAL, as Tod suggested. But before punching hole I applied a light coat of rough buff, as we both agreed he could move right if needed first game but can't seem to get left far enough or has the speed to overcome when they break down in the third. He shot 686 and this week seemed to clip holes intermittently through the set . I convinced him that removing his wrister and killing the ball to get to the hole is not the right move. ( ESP since he is rev and power challenged already) The ball has the cg positive enough at 5/8 side and 1/4 thumb that the weight hole will match up well if needed. YES,YES,YES, a weight hole will change flare and bowtie location. I attended a Brunswick seminar last month and they had a test ball (Ultimate) drilled with 4 weight holes and removeable/replaceable weight hole plugs. They also had the various axis migration points marked so they could mark them with tape as each weight hole combo was thrown. The bowtie pattern was also shown after each weight hole change. Ball reaction was very slight with each change (fine tuning type change), but the flare and track changes were pretty dramatic. Had flar increasing and reducing holes as described on the sheets, but also the flare increasing bowtie raise and the flare reducing bowtie lower. Great seminar. Thanks again will keep informed of his progress and "noise" issue, Al

jls · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2006, 12:50:14 PM »

ALZ
exactly where did tod mention using ruff buff on the ball.
i must have missed that in the noval he wrote.

Author Topic: scorchin clipping the fingers..help ! (Read 4295 times)

alzgarvin

scorchin clipping the fingers..help !

Old Coach

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thfonz98

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alzgarvin

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BrunsBob

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alzgarvin

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Cranking_Inferno

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Cranking_Inferno

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jls

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kmanestor22

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agroves

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jls

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Bowler19

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alzgarvin

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jls

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