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Author Topic: Seige or Virtual Gravity  (Read 5296 times)

bigjay

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Seige or Virtual Gravity
« on: October 28, 2009, 02:13:28 AM »
Hi All, new to the forums but appreciate all the good information here. As the title suggests Im considering a new ball.I'm new to bowling with a finger tip ball and one that hooks. about 3 months ago I purchased a Momentum Swing.After some research on teh columbia site I found it had been drilled about as unagressive as recommended.Said it was good for dry to med lanes.On three occassion I have found this out first hand.Seems whenever I run in to freshly oiled or heavily oiled lanes I cant get the ball to hook to save my life.I try outside, inside and gutter to gutter no luck.So Im looking for a ball for oil. I am currently more of a "stroker", med revs, med track and high 17's low 18's mph.Your thoughts and /or suggestins about the two balls mentioned?Am I missing anything?
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tizzle

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2009, 10:30:13 AM »
Bigjay,

Depends on what you call oil. Both of the balls you inquired about will take oil, but at the same time will require true amounts of oil. The siege is very strong and will be earlier in reaction then the Vg. The Virtual will handle oil but will do it on the backend of the lane. So it depends on what your looking for. If you don't have heavy oil, then these two may not be what your looking for. You may want to start with a medium-medium heavy ball to start with and see if you can get the reaction you need out of that.
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag...
a Frenzy, Siege, a Wild Thing, and a Python Snake.. how can I loose....

....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)
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bigjay

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2009, 10:43:13 AM »
Hi Tizzle
Thank for the information. The oiled I have run into is usually at one particular house on Sunday mornings. They have been having tournaments that morning and the lanes are freshly oiled. I guess I need to ask what pattern but while the ball doesn't actually throw a rooster tail going down the lane(that I can see) it comes back soping wet!At this point I'm looking for anything that will break anywhere on the lanes.The only person I have seen throw a hook is my wife. Keep in mind she throws a 12lb ball at 12mph when shes lucky.I just cant back down that far. Would the owner of lanes be able to tell me if its heavily oiled or just the pattern?
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themachine300

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2009, 10:55:12 AM »
If I read this right, the ball is coming out of the ball return "soping wet."  That usually means the cover is about done and you need to extract the oil.  The momentum swing has a strong oil absorption cover on it and it needs to be revived every so often.
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bigjay

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 11:11:30 AM »
Hi themachine
Yeah I had thought that as well. Had the pro shop do the rejuvenator thing on it..no help.at least in that instance I did notice a difference on the other 2 houses I bowl.I guess sopping isnt exactly the correct term.You can see heavy oil on the track line. After trying everything I could think of I went back to just throwing it straight at the pocket. Still used my normal release but it just plowed straight.It has done this the three times I have been to this house.In two of the three houses I bowl my average is 181 at this one I have no idea but Im guessing 130's.Im tempted to just grab a house ball and throw it conventional!
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kmanestor22

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 12:00:18 PM »
My experience with the Siege is that it will not handle heavy oil.  I cannot speak for the VG.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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jls

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2009, 12:18:14 PM »
quote:
Bigjay,

Depends on what you call oil. Both of the balls you inquired about will take oil, but at the same time will require true amounts of oil. The siege is very strong and will be earlier in reaction then the Vg. The Virtual will handle oil but will do it on the backend of the lane. So it depends on what your looking for. If you don't have heavy oil, then these two may not be what your looking for. You may want to start with a medium-medium heavy ball to start with and see if you can get the reaction you need out of that.
--------------------
Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag...
a Frenzy, Siege, a Wild Thing, and a Python Snake.. how can I loose....

....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)



Excellent reply... The Seige oob surface is much stronger then the Vir. G.
I believe the Seige is at 1000, and the VG is at 4000...

Now as for this reply.
"the Seige will not handle heavy oil"   <<<  very interesting.. May I ask what ball you do use for heavy oil???

Now as for the Momentum Swing.... I never found anyone that liked that ball in heavy oil...  However the Full Swing is a monster/beast....
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jls
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ccrider

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2009, 12:58:00 PM »
All responses are intelligent, to the extent that you have provided adequate information.

However, without seeing how you are throwing the ball, it is hard to tell what the problem really is. I suggest that you spend the money that you were going to spend on your next ball, on a good coach and a few coaching sessions. It is obvious that you have limited knowledge as to how to "throw a hook" ball, to use your terminology.

No, I am not being a smart arse. Just giving you some sound advice. If you choose not to take it, at least post a video so that the guys on here can see you bowl. You will then get some useful critique from some of the guys on here. Others will give you bs.

Last, I have a Momentum Swing and a Virtual Gravity. While they both react differently on the lane, I could get either to hook in a flood. It sounds to me like your ball speed and rev rate is not matching up, but again, this is just a stab in the dark.

CC
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kmanestor22

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2009, 01:26:47 PM »
jls, I had an Awesome Hook and Two Awesome Revs that worked wonderfully on heavy oil.  One of the Revs was drilled identical to my Siege.  My Siege is just ridiculously weak.  I've tried polished up.  I've tried sanding down.  The ball is just weak.  I shared my experience with this ball as a warning to someone who asked. That is all.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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jls

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2009, 01:46:10 PM »
quote:
jls, I had an Awesome Hook and Two Awesome Revs that worked wonderfully on heavy oil.  One of the Revs was drilled identical to my Siege.  My Siege is just ridiculously weak.  I've tried polished up.  I've tried sanding down.  The ball is just weak.  I shared my experience with this ball as a warning to someone who asked. That is all.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer



Sir,
That's what I have been hearing...  Now may I ask what layout you have on your Seige.
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jls
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kmanestor22

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2009, 03:10:59 PM »
The pin is 5-7/8" from PAP above my middle finger, MB on my VAL, 3/4" weight hole inside my VAL in the lower quadrant.  A weak drill for most, but not me.  I have used it very successfully in the past on similar balls.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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jls

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2009, 04:49:00 PM »
quote:
The pin is 5-7/8" from PAP above my middle finger, MB on my VAL, 3/4" weight hole inside my VAL in the lower quadrant.  A weak drill for most, but not me.  I have used it very successfully in the past on similar balls.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer




I know what you mean, I have a sales rep who sets his balls up the same way...
He prefers balls that get further down the lane..  He loves this drilling because for him it's strong but smooth off the break...
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jls
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kmanestor22

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2009, 07:09:08 AM »
Yes.  That's what I usually get out of it.  A lot of people freak out when I tell them how it's drilled thinking that it can't possibly be a strong drilling.  In today's world of asymmetrical cores that flare 7+", 5-1/2" pin to PAP gives me the maximum reaction out of the ball.
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Where is the bait?  I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer
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Drillmn300

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2009, 02:47:16 AM »
Oil is one thing and lane surface is another, I have had both balls and would drill the VG for oil over the Siege every day of the week. I bowl on synthetics and the Siege was more of an arc with 2 different layouts, strong but still consistent in the mid lane where the VG rolled real heavy in the mid lane with a harder drive or flip per say on the back end.


Good luck and bowl well with whatever you decide!
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tuckingfenpin

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Re: Seige or Virtual Gravity
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2009, 11:45:34 AM »
My favorite thing is watching someone throw their "maximum hooking ball" VG up board 10 on a medium house shot. This goes for the Siege too.

Just because you have a heavy oil ball, doesn't mean you have the hand to make it turn the corner like a heavy oil ball should.

Also, just because it's a 'heavy oil ball' does not mean it should hook the entire lane, either. Different motions for different bowlers, what matches up for one guy may be complete junk for someone else.
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Big B > *
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