Author Topic: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook? (Read 4364 times)

kmanestor22 · « **on:** October 02, 2009, 03:39:21 AM »

I drilled up a Siege - pin over my middle finger, weight hole 4" not on my PAP, mass bias near my VAL. I had an Awesome Revs drilled identical to this and had much success at various cover preps.

Out of box this ball did almost nothing, although it flared a ton. I figured there was not enough oil and the ball was burning up. I took it up to 4000. It rolls okay, very even and I have to stand further right compared to my Sauce. Near the end of the first game, I end up coming up light and leaving two pins. Again, I assume the lanes are breaking down and that I have too much cover for the conditions.

Here''s where it gets weird. Third game, lanes are fried and I am standing in front of the ball return swinging right with my Virtual Energy, but not carrying. For the hell of it, I try to play the roll out with the Siege. Suddenly, the ball rolls as I expected it to if there was heavy oil.

My Siege is a dry lane ball? Did I get a dud? I am going to apply rough buff tonight to see what affect that may have. Anyone else have a similar experience or have a clue to what is going on?

edit: I miss-typed. Pin is above middle finger. 5-3/4" from PAP just like my Awesome Revs.

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Where is the bait? I''''m goin'''' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 10/2/2009 1:24 PM

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 02, 2009, 11:50:06 AM »

Could be the exact opposite. Usually when someone moves that deep in the lane, there is ALOT of head oil that hasnt been touched yet. What it could be, is that even taking the cover up, if there isnt much head oil towards the track area, the ball is struggling to get through the heads clean enough to allow for backend movement, so it is flat and probably hits like a dud. Also....what is your axis point? Pin above ring could be 5 inch pin to PAP for you and 3.5 pin to PAP for someone else. Just saying pin above ring finger does not automatically mean length drilling. There are two reason right there that could lead to the issue. One more thing, the Sauce compared to the Siege, is cleaner through the heads anyway which will equate to more backend movement. Is the Sauce drilled identical to the Siege as well?
--------------------
Steven Vance
Pro Shop Operator
Striking Results Pro Shop
Red Carpet Lanes
Duluth (NE Atlanta), Georgia

If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:01:27 PM »

Please read the whole thing before commenting. It rolls better, even angular on dry conditions.
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

« **Reply #3 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:49:40 PM »

To answer your question, no. My Siege has been great whenever I have found SOME oil. For house shots mine has been better with some polish on it.

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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 02, 2009, 12:57:00 PM »

quote:
I did read the whole thing. I was just saying that the wild thing would have worked great on dry conditions for the first few games but after that it started working how i expected it to work.
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Sorry Rod. I was referring to the other two. Charlest is hung up on the fact that the mb is on my VAL. I''ve drilled a dozen balls for myself this way and I know it works for me. Like I said the ball is sideways when the lanes are dry. This contradicts what both are saying.
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Where is the bait? I''m goin'' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 10/2/2009 1:08 PM

Sir Bowl-A-Lot · « **Reply #5 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:16:16 PM »

I know someone who has a Siege who is having the same exact problem you are with yours. Great dry lane ball, terrible medium to heavy oil ball.

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** October 02, 2009, 01:49:36 PM »

quote:
quote:
I did read the whole thing. I was just saying that the wild thing would have worked great on dry conditions for the first few games but after that it started working how i expected it to work.
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Sorry Rod. I was referring to the other two. Charlest is hung up on the fact that the mb is on my VAL. I''''ve drilled a dozen balls for myself this way and I know it works for me. Like I said the ball is sideways when the lanes are dry. This contradicts what both are saying.
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Where is the bait? I''''m goin'''' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 10/2/2009 1:08 PM

FIXED!!

FYI I was not "hung up about". It was just a freaking suggestion,for heaven''s sake!
Don''t worry. You can drill every asymmetric ball the same way and make it work.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 10/2/2009 1:50 PM

jbuzz31 · « **Reply #7 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:04:32 PM »

quote:

edit: I miss-typed. Pin is above middle finger. 5-3/4" from PAP just like my Awesome Revs.

Um. last time i checked thats a pretty WEAK pin placement.
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #8 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:07:40 PM »

quote:
quote:

edit: I miss-typed. Pin is above middle finger. 5-3/4" from PAP just like my Awesome Revs.

Um. last time i checked thats a pretty WEAK pin placement.
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason

Not for me. The ball flares a ton.
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

JustRico · « **Reply #9 on:** October 02, 2009, 02:32:39 PM »

Uhm you realize that the VAL is an irrelevant point as far as ball reaction? It is more dependant on how many degrees the PSA or mass bias is from the PAP. The VAL is not a stagnant place on the ball. And it is a straight line on the ball surface. The true VAL moves on a curve as the PAP migrates. Placing a PSA on the VAL means nothing as far as overall reaction.
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Formerly BrunsRico

jbuzz31 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 02, 2009, 03:52:26 PM »

quote:
Just because the balls is 5 3/4 inches from your PAP and flares alot doesnt mean its going to hook alot.

You got exactly what you drilled. A strong core and coverstock ball that you can throw straight.

If you wanted something that hooks more, or reads the lane better you should of went with something closer to 4 3/4 pin to PAP.

Contrary to popular belief this game called bowling isnt always a LEFT TO RIGHT game. At some point most people have forgotten that.

Second, if you dont have any tilt your not going to get the ball to boomerang around the lane unless the lane conditions are absolutely perfect for the ball and release you use.

I dont care what ball it is, and who makes it. If your not getting around it either with more axis rotation or tilt (spin), balls do not create the big hook boomerang you want, especially strong core/cover combos.

For example I have a 5 3/4 pin to PAP Virtual Gravity, pin above the middle finger with my pap of 5 3/8 x 5/8 up (Relatively high forward roll). With my 11 to 13 degres of tilt it rolls forward with early arc type reaction. I have to throw it straight, have alittle bit of head belly room to work with. Depending on the condition moves left can only go so far before the ball either has to be put away or the degree of tilt or rotation must be changed. If I want to bank it from inside and boomerang it, the tilt NEEDS to be changed.

If I wanted to use my normal release with such a strong core and combo combination it wouldnt do anything at all from an in to out deeper swing, and most bowlers would say..the ball is a POS. The moral of the story...the ball, release and lane conditions all have to match up. The game is called Matching Up..

Ding ding ding...we have a winner....
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason

thefreestyler1 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:13:08 PM »

Yes, I also have a Siege and am having the same problem. I tend to take it out after the lanes break down a bit, but even then, I have other balls I'd rather use.

I suppose I just don't match up with the ball very well or at least to the way its drilled...

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 02, 2009, 04:23:18 PM »

Not one of you so called experts have addressed the ISSUE. I have no issue with the ball flare. All your drilling layout comments are addressing is the shape of the bowtie and its position. This is not what I came here to figure out. The question is about the anomaly. Why is it angular on dry oil? Not one of you geniuses have suggested an idea. Just criticize the drill. You all say it''s too strong. Then why does it work on dry lanes? Common sense would indicate a problem with the cover. NOOOOOO!!!!! It''s gotta be how you layed it out because I know exactly what you need without seeing you bowl!
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Where is the bait? I''m goin'' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 10/2/2009 4:24 PM

JustRico · « **Reply #13 on:** October 02, 2009, 05:05:36 PM »

Ok,
Surface dictates length...you have the ball smoothed up to 4000, so that is going to create length.
Going with a pin placement of 5 3/4", which also creates length, no matter the amount of flare you are seeing. It is farther away from your PAP, which creates length and when it sees friction will have a greater response or quicker change of direction.
The PSA sounds as if it is close to 45 degrees, which is a strong PSA placement which is also one that will enhance a quicker response.
You took a ball with a strong core & strong cover and gave it too weak of a layout. The ball will fight itself, no matter what you may think.
Also when you move inside, generally past the track area on the lane, the surface is smoother or cleaner, so the ball gets down the lanes easier which allows for more chance of angularity.
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Formerly BrunsRico

tizzle · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2009, 10:41:28 AM »

Try to knock it down to 1000 and hit it with polish. With my siege polished it still hooks more and handles more oil then my rogue cell drilled identical and in oob surface. The cover on the Siege is very strong, too strong in most cases!
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Hmm..Lets see what I have in this bag...some virtual gravity, some hot sauce, a liberator, and a saw.. how can I loose....

....HG-300(2006 w/Desert Heat)...299 (03/15/09 w/Agent Orange)...HS-776 (Hot Sauce Pearl & Ebonite Magic)

Author Topic: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook? (Read 4364 times)

kmanestor22

Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

TWOHAND834

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

kmanestor22

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

kmanestor22

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

Sir Bowl-A-Lot

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

charlest

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

jbuzz31

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

kmanestor22

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

JustRico

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

jbuzz31

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

thefreestyler1

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

kmanestor22

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

JustRico

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?

tizzle

Re: Siege - Anyone have trouble getting this to hook?