Author Topic: thank you...tom tomaras ! (Read 4941 times)

DON DRAPER · « **on:** March 06, 2004, 07:30:09 AM »

i would like to publicly thank tom tomaras and the entire r&d staff at brunswick for all their help over the past several years. these guys have helped me with everything from ball selection, drilling suggestions, coverstock preparation, and ball maintenence. most recently, tom gave me some advice that really paid off tonight. he recommended heating out the oil of my inferno with a blow dryer in a cardboard box and it really made a noticeable difference. after wetsanding the ball down to 600 grit i placed the ball in the box for 10 minutes and wiped off the oil with windex and paper towels. i repeated this process for three(3) cycles until no noticeable about of oil remained. i then thouroughly cleaned the ball one last time with windex and wetsanded the ball 800 and then finally 1,000 grit. i have not seen this much reaction in my inferno in quite a while---and this ball was purchased last year at this time. tonight i shot 786( 259, 258, 269 )playing a down and in shot around 7-8. i plan on trying this method of oil extraction on my raging inferno and monster slayR when it's needed but until then thank you tom and the r&d staff at brunswick.

agroves · « **Reply #1 on:** March 06, 2004, 11:29:26 PM »

Tom Tomaras has also been a great help to me. I am always emailing him questions about this ball and that. We have talked on the phone and through numerous emails. I consistantly returns my emails within one day. Great guy and great products from Big B.

Andrew
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FUFU

"Act like you've been there before"

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2004, 06:08:24 AM »

greg t, sorry you've had problems with heat on your bowling ball. i know balls aren't cheap. i guess i'm just lucky----then again, i've also never had the problem with dexter shoes that many people seem to have.

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2004, 03:00:14 PM »

i must give my thanks yet again to tom tomaras and the r&d staff at brunswick. my partner and i broke the city record in the doubles portion of the 67th annual st. joseph(MO)city tournament today. my partner shot 744( 228-269-247 ) and i shot 754( 279-276-199 )for a scratch total of 1498. i don't think i could have done this well without toms suggestion to heat the oil out of the ball using the box and blowdryer method. the inferno i used today had a great backend reaction----i was able to play my "a" game and play a down and in shot down about 8. my partner was using his teal rhino pro and he pretty much played the same line except he was a hair farther to the right. once again, thanks for the help tom !

stringer · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2004, 04:15:07 PM »

Great bowling Greg. Obviously you are getting a good reaction from your inferno. Playing down and in and playing the same line as a teal Rhino, I would have to think that your inferno is not anywhere near the reaction you had when new. Even balls that are near dead can still match up well with some lane conditions. Just curious, What kind of reaction did you have before you heated it and how close to the original reaction are you now.?

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2004, 09:29:07 PM »

first, my friends teal rhino pro is very dull----he throws very hard. the bowling center we bowled at has plenty of oil in the heads---no problem there. the biggest difference i can see is a more aggressive move down the lane. a move that hasn't been there for awhile. as far as how close to it's original reaction ? well, that's a tough question. but i'd say closer than when i used the hook-again system.

Steven · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2004, 10:04:30 PM »

GREG: A few thoughts:

quote:
after wetsanding the ball down to 600 grit i placed the ball in the box for 10 minutes and wiped off the oil with windex and paper towels.

Again, Windex does not penetrate oil and dirt effectively. It tends to lay on top of oil and dirt and, when wiped with a towel, smears along the ball's surface leaving behind residue that is absorbed into the surface pores. This is not opinion, but fact. If you choose to live in your own make believe world and pretend that windex and alcohol are effective degreasers, that's your choice, but recommending this to others is dishonest.

quote:
i guess i'm just lucky----then again, i've also never had the problem with dexter shoes that many people seem to have.

Yes, you are lucky. Common sense tells you that if you're going to apply heat, then you need to apply it equally (and controlled) across the ball. That's why there are professional ball oil extraction ovens, like the Rejuvenator. I'm suprised Tom would recommend a dangerous home method when there are other heat methods that are safer and more effective.

And by the way, heating balls has nothing to do with Dexter shoes. If you don't understand the problems others have had, you're not reading the posts carefully.

--------------------
"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

bigfoot · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2004, 10:24:51 PM »

I don't believe Greg was implying that Dexter shoes and heating ball were related.
I think he was just giving another example of maybe being lucky.....

UCFKnight300 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 07, 2004, 11:09:49 PM »

After reading many of the stories from various members of this board I decided to bake some of my equipment. I have had an Eliminator since the day it came out and it has more games on it than i can count, I threw it everywhere last year. It reaction had become very controllable evan after quite a few games, but around september i noticed that this ball is almost impossible to get a good roll on unless the conditions were perfect. To get its reaction back I tried resurfacing it(i know now it was a bad move), i sanded it down on the spinner, scuffed across the track, i did everything. I was almost content on just having this ball skid down the lane with a small smooth turn.

So i decided to put it in the over on 170 degrees at 20 minutes 4 times. I figured what the hell, i'm prolly never gona throw this ball again, considering i have newer stuff now, including another Eliminator. I threw it the next day on our standard house shot and I was THOUROUGHLY impressed. This ball rolled like it did a year ago. I was able to throw the same line i played a year ago, it just felt great having the whole lane again, lol.

Since then i have baked my new Eliminator, same settings but it only needed 2 sessions before it stopped sweating. Also, I recently had my inferno, which now has a million games on it, put in the hook it system to see the results i could get. I've had it sanded since I got it and loved its reaction before, and now it just hooks early and skids the rest of the lane. So i put it in the hook it and then on the haus and brought back to factory with the brunswick polish. The ball rolled a little better, but i still noticed that it didn't make the nice extra turn in the back that it used to. It now rolled more like my blazing. I put it in the oven for 2 20 min. sessions this past weekend and will be going to the lanes tomorrow to see if it has regained its touch. I'll put another post tomorrow to review how it went.

I'd like to say that I believe that Ebonites mindset behind this "plastisizer" theory is a little strange. I am no scientist, but their logic doesn't really fit with me. I honestly think that they just want to be able to market another product for people to buy. Brunswick is the only company that has come forth and say that you can fix your balls yourself, and don't need to spend more money in hopes that it might work like old again. Good luck to everone else in keeping their balls in top condition.

Mike Larsen

REVOLUTIONS PS · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2004, 11:21:58 AM »

I'll chime in here to say add that Tom is indeed a great guy and a credit to the company he works for. I too have called on him a number of times for information and he has never let me down. I know he visits this board from time to time as well...keep up the good work!!!

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2004, 04:23:06 PM »

steven, so nice to hear from you again. the reason i used windex was because that's what tom said they( brunswick )used. who am i to doubt their r&d work ? i guess the brunswick-dexter analogy went over your head. nevertheless, i found their method of oil extraction to work very well. and that's good enough for me.

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2004, 02:02:08 AM »

Honestly guys, if you really want a ball thats going to last forever and always react the same, either go find a urethane hammer, yellow dot, or something comparable from the 70's and 80's. People wanted balls that hooked more, that snapped, that kept coming, now we have them. There is always going to be a trade-off. If you're so interested in your bowling and the game itself that you've experienced all these different methods of oil extraction, then you're probably also experienced enough to know its time to BUY A NEW FRIGGIN BALL, jesus. It never ceases to amaze me. Yes, the balls do die now. Yes, it sucks that you cant have them last forever, but we know this, and we bowl anyway. Deal with it, buy a new one, or throw urethane and plastic forever. But for crying out loud, dont get in someone elses S&^%& when they want to try something to prolong their balls life.

If they want to bake it like a cake at 350, who the heck are any of you to call them down for it, or tell how you've been "screwed" because you could only bake or resurface your ball once. The game has changed, obviously, and that includes the equipment. Take it or leave it, for better or for worse, but leave the insults in the bag, or take up golf....and yes, this means you too STEVE. `Nuff said.

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2004, 01:39:02 AM »

Shocker, your assumption that you know me inside and out from a post is..drumroll.....WRONG! I never said everyone should just buy new stuff. Obviously thats the solution for people who enjoy buying new equipment and can afford it. My point was the balls die out faster, deal with it. Buy a new one, or dont throw them, but dont get all over a guy who was baking his ball because you had a bad experience with it. You obviously didnt read the end of the post, which was the whole point. I've baked balls myself FOR people in a home oven that sits around 110 degrees on the warm setting and NEVER had a problem....I didnt just tell them they needed a new ball. And I assure you, sir, I need no advice for you on how to make money in a pro-shop, and I'm not sweating the lack of a rejuvenator, and 2 of our 5 shops use the hook-again system, so if I need it done, I can send it their way. Please dont try to flame like you know anything about someone when you obviously are seriously mistaken, k?

Edited on 3/14/2004 2:33 AM

Steven · « **Reply #13 on:** March 14, 2004, 09:33:26 PM »

Greg: A few comments:

quote:
the reason i used windex was because that's what tom said they( brunswick )used. who am i to doubt their r&d work ?

As a disciple of all and everything that is Brunswick, I'm assuming that you've religiously followed their equipment maintenance procedures. So don't you find it ironic (and disturbing) that your Inferno lost noticeable reaction in less than a year? That should never happen to correctly maintained equipment within one year; and I really mean never. If anything, you should be publicly angry that Brunswick gave you bad information. If you were to open up and be willing to think on your own, that would be the only appropriate reaction.

So let's fast forward to Brunswick's latest brainstorm; the use of Windex to clean equipment. If you're motivated, it's really easy to do the minimum required amount of due diligence -- simply read the label! Windex says that it's primary purpose is for cleaning glass. The last I looked, coverstocks are not made of glass. However, to be fair, Windex says that it can be used as a light duty cleaner for other types of hard surfaces. But there are two problems here. First, you don't want light-duty anything when attempting to restore the reaction of a ball. Second, a coverstock is not simply a "hard surface". It has pores designed to absorb oil to promote hook, so you need an agent better formulated to chemically break down absorbed grime. Think, and this should all be obvious.

Wells: With respect to the following:

quote:
Take it or leave it, for better or for worse, but leave the insults in the bag, or take up golf....and yes, this means you too STEVE. `Nuff said.

One of the primary purposes of the forum is to distribute accurate information. Greg persists in posting bad information, and I'm simply pointing out the fallacies. Greg won't get it (it's become a matter of pride), but it's important to others to understand what works and what doesn't. I'm not talking about 'opinion', but basic true/false stuff. If you find that insulting, sorry.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

BowlersAidProShop-Wells · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2004, 11:17:14 PM »

Couldnt you atleast get your own post ending LINE! Noting is sacred, I tell you. And Steve, the part about slinging insults was directed at your crass attitude towards Greg's post about the Dexter shoes. I think he only threw that in there to further emphasize his "luck" with bowling equipment. Also, when was the last time you noticed an aggressive coverstock that didnt seem to "lose and edge" after a year, or a certain amount of games. I think I've yet to see one last a year in the hands of someone who bowls more than once a week regardless of the ball company or how maintained the cover is kept. Atleast this has been my experience. :0

ps. 'nuff sed

Edited on 3/16/2004 0:12 AM

Author Topic: thank you...tom tomaras ! (Read 4941 times)

DON DRAPER

thank you...tom tomaras !

agroves

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DON DRAPER

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DON DRAPER

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stringer

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DON DRAPER

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Steven

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bigfoot

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UCFKnight300

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REVOLUTIONS PS

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DON DRAPER

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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Steven

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BowlersAidProShop-Wells

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