BallReviews
Equipment Boards => Brunswick => Topic started by: cland216 on October 17, 2006, 07:34:58 AM
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Is this a debatable subject or is it cut and dry???
I'm asking because I personally feel like it's the 8-pin. It seems that every time I need to throw a strike in a given situation, I put all my nervousness aside and gear back and let it rip, 8-pin every time... This is what happens with my Strike Zone very often.
My Danger Zone however, i keep leaving 9-pins. I figure it's coming in too high so I go a tad bit deeper with slower speed, problem solved.
Traditionally I thought 9-pins were the true tap.
PLEASE HELP
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I'd say an 8pin is the only true tap. But at the same time, I've seen people who's back end reaction caused a lot of 8pins. My resolution when that happens, I move up 2-3 inches, and believe it or not it makes a huge difference in my pocket action. It doesn't hit light, just produces a different bounce for the pin (the 5 I think) that gets a bad tap out to leave the 8.
At least it works for me!
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i agree with the previous take a couple stps back with the approach so that it doesn't hit the pocket as hard leaving the 9.. once i start leaving those nines it's either move to the right or move back a couple inches... that lighter hit will allow more pin action as well..
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Assuming all the pins are on spot, the 8 pin (righthander) is the only one there is no adjustment for. Just plain bad luck. This link on this website shows the best slo-mo video I've seen about Stone 8s. I've have rechecked all the stone 8s from PBA classic shows I've recorded back into the 70s and same thing...the headpin hits the 5. All these years, coaches (including me) have taught that the ball chops the 5 off the 8. Now, we know.
http://www.teamstatpro.com/solid8pin.htm
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In the modern game I'm not sure that there is such a thing as a "true tap." Balls today create such incredible entry angles and retain huge amounts of energy which translates into leaving some pretty amazing single pins: the "swish" 7 (not to mention the "swish" 4 or 6), the "flush" 9, the "fast 8" 4-7, etc.
In the old days I would say yes, the only true tap was the 8 pin, but now I'm not sure the concept is valid.
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I agree with the 8. 9-pins are almost always too much angle, too high, or too much drive. The ball exits through the 8-pin spot by going 1-3-5-8 instead of 1-3-5-9. It's simple to adjust for that situation. 10s are usually either weak or ringing and we know how to adjust for them. You just can't adjust for 8s. It's not a bad shot, and 9 other times, you'd've carried it fine. Ask Randy Pedersen.
SH
Edited on 10/17/2006 3:48 PM
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If you view the video, you can see how the headpin turns and hits the 5...butt first. If your ball chops the 5 off the 8, then it was a terrible rack to start with. I prefaced my statement with...assuming the pins are on spot. But, there is no way the ball can be centered on the 17 board (flush hit) and after deflecting to the right to hit the 3 pin, then move laterally far enough left in a few inches of lane length and be able to then continue on an angle to chop the 5 off the 8. Only the zigzagging "single bullet" that hit Kennedy and Connally could do that. But, for years we were told by television commentators and coaches alike that that was what happened. I remember telling my students the same thing, not really questioning the laws of physics involved. I think there are more Stone 8s in today's game, not because of reactive balls, but simply because there are a higher percentage of "flush hits" with thshots feeding more balls to the pocket. I don't think its because of more powerful balls. Rubber balls will do the same thing. Its just harder to get them flush. I don't think there were that many before double-voided pins in the early 60s (I think), which for those who can remember, Bill Taylor told the bowling world about how these "too lively" pins would ruin the game.
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I'd be more convinced of the head pin hitting the 5 pin first if it were an overhead view. There is quite a distance between the 1 and 5. I see the ball pushing the headpin out of the way and then hitting the 5
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The only true tap in bowling is the one that happens to you!
Chuck
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Guys,
The solid eight-pin tap IS caused by the headpin hitting the five-pin, but there is a process to it. You may not belive me, but I have worn out three V.C.R.'s (remember those things?) playing and re-playing the p.b.a. telecasts. Here is what happens.
The ball enters the pocket very flush on the headpin, almost high, but not quite, and due to the entry angle, it contacts the headpin at the perfect spot to get the reaction it takes.
The headpin is slammed into the 2 pin so hard and so quickly, that it rebounds off the 2 pin, butt first, back into the path of the oncoming ball and is "trapped" behind the ball for just a split second ina prone position.
The ball then contacts the headpin again, this time while it is "trapped" behind the ball. This causes the HEADPIN to hit the five pin a fraction of a second and at a fraction of an inch different trajectory than the ball would have, causing the 5 pin to go straight, directly back, missing the 8 pin altogether. The headpin then rolls out from behind the ball, just barely missing the 8 pin itsself. The headpin goes into the side gutter, the ball drives through the rack hitting the 1-3-5 and9pins like it is supposed to on a perfect delivery.
All other pin action is the same. The headpin causes the five pin to go straight back, missing the eight pin and there is nothing else left to hit it unless you over throw the ball and it over hooks enough for you to get lucky and hit it with the ball.
Argue all you may. Get a tape machine and watch. You will see it, no matter how many times and how many different eight pin leaves you look at, they are ALWAYS the same if it truley was a tap.
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
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nice job Jug!
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I had that problem before but fixed that on my throw. If I start living 8 or 7 pin. All I do is moved 1 board right then 1 inch back. Took me a while to figured out but works for me on any ball I used. If I just moved right then it leave to 10 pin.
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Often, the headpin also hits the 8, but we don't take notice of those because they look like flush strikes. Only on slow motion replays can you see this. Sometimes, the headpin goes straight back with the 5 pin...to the right of the 8. Most often, though on a Stone 8, the headpin wraps around the 8 to the left. It is usually the last pin movement you see. Sometimes the ball actually hooks or deflects (off the 3 pin) all the way to where the ball grazes the 8 (splitting the 8 and 9) and it falls slowly straight left, thus avoiding a Stone 8.
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I always thought thE true tap was a flush 7-9 (for righties) because A. you pounded the hole flush and B. your reward is an open!!!
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You leave the 8 pin because you didn't want it bad enough.
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quote:
I think the 9 is the true tap. My 8's are all the case of a hair weaker reaction at the very end than usual, maybe if I throw it a touch too hard. Nines, on the other hand...the ball just drove through the pocket too hard and didn't bounce off into the 9. They're both reaction based, not angle of entry or high/light based because those aspects already have to have been perfect. Contrast this to the pocket 7-10, that's the one you float out there with no authority on the release, it holds AND reacts weakly, getting to the pocket but hitting like a marshmallow.
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If you 8's are caused by a weaker reaction than normal, you are overthrowing a lot of your shots. That is if you are counting on the ball to take out the 8 pin.
If you leave the SOLID nine pin, according to everything I've ever been taught, you have over rotated the ball causing it to not deflect in the rack, or have played the ball from too steep of an entry angle. The ball is supposed to have a small amount of deflection. On a supposed "perfect" shot, the ball contacts only the 1,3,5,and 9 pins, the rest is all pin interactions.
As for reaction based, that is mostly correct, but you can leave a 9 pin by having too steep of an entry angle with modern equipment. The increased entry angle, coupled with the strength of the resin ball and gyroscopic cores, can cause the ball to roll right past the nine at times. The new cores increase the momentum of a ball in a certain velocity ( vectoring, I believe is the term) and the increased momentum drives the ball through the rack before it has time to respond to the increase in entry angle.
Granted, for my scenario to work, it would have to be a bad shot to begin with ( little high maybe, or a little slower trajectory ).
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein
Edited on 10/22/2006 11:57 AM
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The only true tap in bowling is the "5"PIN... It's true...
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I've thrown shots where I've deserved 9's before, and believe it or not, you can throw a shot where if you leave an 8, it's partly your fault. If you come up the back of the ball too far and don't give it a chance to drive, it can flatten out through the pocket. BUT, anytime you hit flush, you should carry the 8. 9's will happen with too much drive.
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