Post by: Ric Clint on July 09, 2004, 12:22:33 PM
My league has been changing shots recently from everything to BURNT... to a shot where there's good fresh head oil but massively SCREAMING backends.
The one shot that is killing me is the shot where there's fresh head oil and midlane oil, but the oil is short with absolutely Screaming backends! I've been using a Reaction Rev and sometimes a Track Thrash on this shot (both are highly polished to 3000+ with Storm's "Xtra Shine" polish) and both get down the lane really well and work great on this shot where I'm playing inside like at 15-17 board out to like 7-8 board... I've been scoring well (655-690 every week), but I want to score better and feel that I'm using the wrong ball for the shot even though I've been hitting this shot every week.
BUT... on this shot, some of my shots I can tell the ball is rolling out even with a high Gloss like these 2 balls have and plus they're Particle's, so I'm needing a good ball (I think a pearl is the answer?) to play this shot that will give me more backend pop and more continuation and no roll out than my REV and Thrash. Would like to even move deeper and swing more because the backends are THAT strong and there's NO HOLD area at all so you better not pull it.
I've got a chance to get a good deal on one the 3 balls listed above, which are the Bruiser, Red Fuze, or Scream R... which would you get and how would you drill it? I'm thinking PIN above ring, CG stacked under the ring... or PIN beside/touching ring, CG stacked under PIN... (bascially 5x5 or 4x4).
Remember I need GREAT continuation and strong backend with NO rollout. Something is telling me - RED FUZE... RED FUZE... RED FUZE...
Thoughts???
Edited on 7/16/2004 3:21 AM
Edited on 7/16/2004 3:22 AM
Edited on 7/16/2004 3:23 AM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 10, 2004, 03:58:11 AM
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: seadrive on July 10, 2004, 09:18:57 AM
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: JPRLane1 on July 10, 2004, 11:42:02 AM
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I should just quit bowling, oh wait I already tried that.
Now that I am back and my Saws are sharp again, I am ready to cut some wood.
Post by: MTFD24 on July 10, 2004, 12:35:16 PM
Personally I would look for the ScreamR to fit the bill nicely. As to the drill, I believe that a 4x4 or 5x5 would suffice. Mine is drilled with the pin just to the right top of the ring, and the cg out maybe 1/4". It works well with enough oil in the heads and mids, and FRESH backends.
This is not my favorite ball in my arsenal for this, but of the 3 mentioned, IMHO, it would be the best option.
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
www.MTFD.com - a NY State Vol. Fire Department
www.BowlWNY.com - local & national stories by Joe Ciccone
http://www.FDracing.com The worlds fastest firemen in the origional Xtreme Games
24 is not my age, IQ, or bowling average, but my firematic number, at least I think that what it is
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on July 10, 2004, 01:29:02 PM
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on July 10, 2004, 01:46:07 PM
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is!
The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior PrincessAnd why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!
Post by: Walking E on July 10, 2004, 02:10:37 PM
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You weren't unlucky when you left that corner pin, so shut up about it already!!
Post by: Ric Clint on July 10, 2004, 04:19:07 PM
It sounds like the majority are saying... ScreamR.
Pss... I think some of the others may want to go with other balls that are NOT strong on the backend... but what I'm looking for is MASSIVE strong backend!
I was already using one of the strongest backending PARTICLE balls (the REV) in the last 2 years and having great success... but sometimes it would roll out from the oil being shorter and the backedns being so clean strong. So what I'm wanting is a ball that has THAT strong of a backend snap/continuation so that I can move even deeper on the lane and get the ball back.
I think most of you are saying that the BRUSIER rolls a little to early, so that ball may be out of the picture!
But wouldn't the Red Fuze and ScreamR roll early too? Since both have a lower RG? But when I think about it... I was recently told that eventhough the ScreamR is a lower RG ball that it still gets length because it also has a lower RG Differential which helps it get through the heads cleaner because it has lower flare in the heads.
So I guess it's now to the RED FUZE and SCREAMR... I can get a good deal on these 2 balls. So these are my choices for the time being.
Thanks!
Post by: Ric Clint on July 10, 2004, 04:48:06 PM
quote:
I'm looking for a Red Fuze as well. Where can you get a good deal on them?
One of the pro shops in my area.
Post by: Ric Clint on July 10, 2004, 05:20:05 PM
quote:
Which would be where? None of the pro shops I visited has them.
Thanks!
Spindale, NC
Post by: BowlersAidProShop-Wells on July 11, 2004, 12:14:24 AM
Post by: Next Level PS on July 11, 2004, 01:25:37 AM
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www.bowlritelanes.com
www.nextlevelproshop.com
"I'm Rick James B!&$h!!!
Post by: Ric Clint on July 11, 2004, 03:59:37 AM
So that's why I think what I need is a pearl reactive that really has some backend to actually come back from inside lines when being swung out.
So basically what I SHOULD HAVE asked is... between the Red Fuze and ScreamR, which has the most backend snap and continuaion?
Edited on 7/11/2004 3:58 AM
Post by: charlest on July 11, 2004, 08:43:53 AM
* Both the Rev and the Thrash are, as far as I recall, particle balls. I have read many times that many particle balls will just allow themselves to be modified just so far, with regards to applying polish. They will skid just so far, then, so to speak, the particles take over and they grab the lanes.
* Usually a pearl resin is the kind of ball you want to play inside on short oil. A polished solid like the Bruiser can also work, depending on all the factors invovled: how and where it is dry, bowler's hand and release, and how the ball is drilled. The Bruiser is not a big flip ball, but usually more of an even arcing type of ball and it is a solid.
* (No insult intended here, just some honest facts: ) 655-690 are quite wonderful scores that most of us would be satisfied with, if we were executing with normal accuracy and release consistency. "Normal" for most people is not hitting our exact target all the time nor using the exact same timing and release, solely because most of us are not pros.
* If your ball is rolling out only a few times during the night, maybe your execution consistency "only" warrants 655 - 690 (again, VERY good scores!!). Maybe, just maybe, using a pearl resin like the Fuze or the ScreamR might show up different execution mistakes and you'd still be in that 655-690 range for different reasons.
* The ScreamR is for drier lanes than the Fuze, as far as I recall, as it has a stronger coverstock and a stronger high flaring core than the ScreamR. The Fuze being stronger, might still roll-out at times, if not drilled correctly, as compared to the ScreamR, again, as far as I recall. Both are resin pearls. Check their respective specifications and reviews here at ballreviews or elsewhere.
* If you decide on one of these, the drilling will depend on just how dry it is. Example: at one dryness level, the Fuze might need a 5x5 and the ScreamR, with its natural length (as compared to the Fuze) might need a 4x4 or a 3.5 x 3, or some such. Maybe for your release, yo umight need the Fuze with the pin above the ring finger somewhere, say at 4.5" or 5" and the CG kicked out to 2.5" or 3" from the PAP, depending on the dryness and how deep you want or need to play.
This is a very intersting scenario to conquer. I wish you good luck and would love to hear how it plays out for you and which choice you made.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/11/2004 8:39 AM
Post by: Ric Clint on July 12, 2004, 04:07:13 AM
quote:
* Both the Rev and the Thrash are, as far as I recall, particle balls. I have read many times that many particle balls will just allow themselves to be modified just so far, with regards to applying polish. They will skid just so far, then, so to speak, the particles take over and they grab the lanes.
I agree! On a little longer pattern, I've shot great scores with these balls because the longer oil (not LONG oil, but longer than this shorter oil stuff) helps the ball push farther down the lane and the ball doesn't have time to roll out because shortly after it comes out of the oil, there's the pocket right there very close.
quote:
* Usually a pearl resin is the kind of ball you want to play inside on short oil. A polished solid like the Bruiser can also work, depending on all the factors invovled: how and where it is dry, bowler's hand and release, and how the ball is drilled. The Bruiser is not a big flip ball, but usually more of an even arcing type of ball and it is a solid.
The backends are SUPER strong and the outside boards are very strong... this shot is actually wide open! There's 5 bowlers averaging in the 230's! With the high being 239 (this guy bowls regionals too). This is not my home house, this is a new shot for me as I'm used to Longer Heavier Oiled shots at my home house where I'm usually the one averaging what these top 5 are averaging. Like I say, this STRONG backend shot is getting me right now, although I really have been hitting it, but I feel that with a better ball for the shot, that I'll increase my average in this house. I'm at 214 right now.
quote:
* (No insult intended here, just some honest facts: ) 655-690 are quite wonderful scores that most of us would be satisfied with, if we were executing with normal accuracy and release consistency. "Normal" for most people is not hitting our exact target all the time nor using the exact same timing and release, solely because most of us are not pros.
I agree! But I'll just say I'm never satisfied!
Always striving to do better!quote:
* If your ball is rolling out only a few times during the night, maybe your execution consistency "only" warrants 655 - 690 (again, VERY good scores!!). Maybe, just maybe, using a pearl resin like the Fuze or the ScreamR might show up different execution mistakes and you'd still be in that 655-690 range for different reasons.
I see what you mean. Very true, too! That may be the case, I don't know?
quote:
* The ScreamR is for drier lanes than the Fuze, as far as I recall, as it has a stronger coverstock and a stronger high flaring core than the ScreamR. The Fuze being stronger, might still roll-out at times, if not drilled correctly, as compared to the ScreamR, again, as far as I recall. Both are resin pearls. Check their respective specifications and reviews here at ballreviews or elsewhere.
See that's what I was affraid of... the Red Fuze having the potential to "roll-out" too! Eventhough it is a Pearl ball, it is still a very strong flaring/hooking ball and even when highly polished... may still have the potential to ROLL OUT since the oil is short and the backends are so strong. I'm affraid that that may happen with the RED FUZE, so the SCREAM R may be my answer!
Both are lower RG pearls... but the SCREAM R has a lower RG DIFFERENTIAL than the Red Fuze, which means that it should be cleaner through the heads and therefore store more energy with less chance of Roll Out compared to the Red Fuze... correct???
quote:
* If you decide on one of these, the drilling will depend on just how dry it is. Example: at one dryness level, the Fuze might need a 5x5 and the ScreamR, with its natural length (as compared to the Fuze) might need a 4x4 or a 3.5 x 3, or some such. Maybe for your release, yo umight need the Fuze with the pin above the ring finger somewhere, say at 4.5" or 5" and the CG kicked out to 2.5" or 3" from the PAP, depending on the dryness and how deep you want or need to play.
I understand.
quote:
This is a very intersting scenario to conquer. I wish you good luck and would love to hear how it plays out for you and which choice you made.
Thanks!
Edited on 7/12/2004 4:05 AM
Post by: charlest on July 12, 2004, 08:46:19 AM
quote:
The backends are SUPER strong and the outside boards are very strong... this shot is actually wide open! ....
This is the situation wiht my PBA Shot league right now. I have to use balls like the ScreamR which have small backends or I have to modify my release to be a dumper/fluffer. Of course, there are other factors like out-of-bounds and tricky oil patterns ...
quote:quote:
* (No insult intended here, just some honest facts: ) 655-690 are quite wonderful scores that most of us would be satisfied with, if we were executing with normal accuracy and release consistency. "Normal" for most people is not hitting our exact target all the time nor using the exact same timing and release, solely because most of us are not pros.
I agree! But I'll just say I'm never satisfied!
Always the way to be.
quote:quote:
* If your ball is rolling out only a few times during the night, maybe your execution consistency "only" warrants 655 - 690 (again, VERY good scores!!). Maybe, just maybe, using a pearl resin like the Fuze or the ScreamR might show up different execution mistakes and you'd still be in that 655-690 range for different reasons.
I see what you mean. Very true, too! That may be the case, I don't know?
Only you or a close observer can tell.
quote:quote:
* The ScreamR is for drier lanes than the Fuze, as far as I recall, as it has a stronger coverstock and a stronger high flaring core than the ScreamR. The Fuze being stronger, might still roll-out at times, if not drilled correctly, as compared to the ScreamR, again, as far as I recall. Both are resin pearls. Check their respective specifications and reviews here at ballreviews or elsewhere.
See that's what I was affraid of... the Red Fuze having the potential to "roll-out" too! Even though it is a Pearl ball, it is still a very strong flaring/hooking ball and even when highly polished... may still have the potential to ROLL OUT since the oil is short and the backends are so strong. I'm afraid that that may happen with the RED FUZE, so the SCREAM R may be my answer!
Well, as I said, this is something you have to judge. Many of these decisions are a matter of balancing the several most important factors. The Fuze is a notch less strong or lane-grippy than either of the two particle, even if they are highly polished.
quote:
Both are lower RG pearls... but the SCREAM R has a lower RG DIFFERENTIAL than the Red Fuze, which means that it should be cleaner through the heads and therefore store more energy with less chance of Roll Out compared to the Red Fuze... correct???
PLUS the ScreamR has a weaker cover, N'Control vs PK 18. The N'Control goes longer and has less grab at the backend - thus, the balancing act.
good luck.
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"We get old too fast, and too late, smart."
Edited on 7/12/2004 1:25 PM
Post by: BowlersAidProShop-Wells on July 12, 2004, 11:54:16 PM
Post by: Lane Bed on July 13, 2004, 01:13:28 AM
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EvEryOnE rOlls OvEr thE lanE bEd
Post by: Ric Clint on July 13, 2004, 03:36:50 AM
quote:
Enough of the ball selection, I want the address of the place you've shot all those scores in 3 years, lol, and i thought MY first house was walled up!!
I haven't shot any honor scores in this house yet (the one that has the strong backend shot), this is not my home house. I've just been bowling league here (and on this strong back shot) for probably 6 weeks.
And my home house where I've shot those honor scores, ISN'T what I would say a "walled up" house... since there's only been 5 of us that's ever shot an 800 in the whole 17 year history of this house! This house (my home house) is known for for putting out quiet a bit of oil on league night.
My home house used to give out monthly passes for 40.00 a month, and I was always known to come in 4-5 days a week and bowl 8-13 games a day! I've never been one to be satisfied with "mediocer/average" scores, and if I had a bad night, I would be in there the very NEXT DAY on the SAME lanes bowling many games until I was hitting that shot and shooting big scores!
Like I've always said... Until you average 300, there's always room for improvement!
Edited on 7/13/2004 3:36 AM
Post by: Ric Clint on July 13, 2004, 03:40:39 AM
quote:
On a fresh pattern with head and midlane oil a good rule of thumb is The Shorter the pattern the further you move to the right.
Really? Is it really possible to play outside on a strong backend shot even with a lengthy ball?
If so, you'd better not miss inside at all, or through the nose we go.
Post by: BackToBasics on July 13, 2004, 10:22:36 AM
quote:quote:
On a fresh pattern with head and midlane oil a good rule of thumb is The Shorter the pattern the further you move to the right.
Really? Is it really possible to play outside on a strong backend shot even with a lengthy ball?
If so, you'd better not miss inside at all, or through the nose we go.
Edited on 7/13/2004 10:20 AM
Post by: Ric Clint on July 16, 2004, 03:22:58 AM
Here's an UPDATE:
Tonight in league, I tried my REV and got the same ROLL OUT thing I was talking about... well I tried to move further right, but then the REV was too strong... so I picked up my friend's "AZO Ultima RP" (drilled right at 5" x 5 1/4" for me). We have the same exact span and can throw each others stuff.
Well, I move back to playing inside with it (keep in mind we're still in PRACTICE) and the ball is just slamming back with way more backend than my REV and no roll out at all, just strong continuation.
So league starts and I go 264, 241, 289 = 794!!!
I had 505 after the first 2 games, and I had the first 10 the 3rd game and needed to strike on the 11th ball (and then get at least 5 pins on my fill ball to shoot my 3rd 800 of this year, or strike on my fill ball and shoot 300 and 805)... but I threw the ball a hair too slow and left a 4 pin.
So this proves that FOR ME, a ball that "rolls out" ISN'T the answer on SCREAMING backends like it is for some people... for me the answer is a strong backending "pearl" like the Ultima RP (and that may be the Red Fuze???).
I'm hoping to get me a AZO Ultima RP from the driller who drilled my friend's ball... if he still has one. It's an older ball but he ran across a couple of them and I think he still has one left?
I'm gonna drill this one myself (I'm drilling my own stuff at home now).
I can't find any information on this ball anywhere except the link below:
http://www.bowlingballreviews.com/ball.asp?ballid=1171
If I can't get one, then I may get the RED FUZE and I hope it's as strong on the backend as the Ultima RP!
The specs will fool you on the Ultima RP (and expecially the drilling that was on my friend's ball)... but beware this ball is a monster!!! Anybody that's thrown it will agree.
Post by: BowlersAidProShop-Wells on July 16, 2004, 12:12:59 PM
Post by: Ric Clint on July 16, 2004, 06:07:33 PM
quote:
I told you 20 years ago to drill the fuze 5x5, much like that azo is drilled, and adjust the surface to get the backend you needed. But NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, dont listen! :0 j/k. Anyways, congrats on your findings and shooting.
Yep, you're right! The ball is driled 5x5, and not really highly glossed, but I'd say around 2000.
Post by: Ric Clint on July 19, 2004, 01:52:00 AM
Post by: HamPster on July 19, 2004, 07:53:25 AM
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No, really, I like you. Now, by all means, feel free to go fornicate yourself with a sharp object.
Post by: Ric Clint on July 27, 2004, 05:18:19 AM
quote:
The Red Fuze ALWAYS pulls up at the backend, I'm SO jealous you actually found one.
Do you mean that it always backends HARD ???