Post by: Not done on March 15, 2004, 09:02:12 PM
So, I would like to know what meathods you use on your particle ball's to help them react well and stay reacting well. Ex. Cleaning after, befor, during, and on what lanes, synthetic and wood. I bowl on both.
HELP!!!
Edited on 3/16/2004 1:14 PM
Post by: Moe on March 16, 2004, 12:22:21 PM
"The Raging Inferno’s hooking action will increase and its arc will become more even, creating a better match-up for oily lane conditions and further blending the over/under reactions seen on wet/dry lane conditions."
It also said that the high gloss finish will not match up well to "carrydown" its better for dry backends.
Im no expert here, these are just assumptioins.
Edited on 3/16/2004 1:18 PM
Post by: Fatboy8 on March 16, 2004, 12:24:37 PM
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GUTTER DUN!!!
Bear with me, I'm the highest shootin' lowest shooter, spare missin', lane strugglin' beginner I've ever met!!
Post by: Not done on March 16, 2004, 12:28:45 PM
Post by: Moe on March 16, 2004, 12:35:29 PM
Post by: Doc Hollywood on March 16, 2004, 01:57:07 PM
You can check it out on my website by clicking on the link below my signature and you can also purchase it there.
If you have questions message me.
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Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 17, 2004, 09:24:34 AM
) All this heat-lamp, hair dryer, oven , dishwasher stuff,...it's NOT necessary.......Get a good bowling ball every day rejuvenator/cleaner, my recommendation is NeoTac Liquid Nitro...clean your equipment after EVERY SET, if not AT the lanes, when you get home.
Every 30-50 games or so, do a deep clean with a more concentrated cleaner, such as NeoTac's Hook-It, or ReNew-it, they also have a new cleaner that doesn't leave a tacky feel to the ball. Can't remember the name, but if you look on the Coverstock Preparation board, and do a search, using NeoTac, you'll find it. I think Steven posted it. if I find it , I'll add it to this post....
ON EDIT: here it is http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=48746&ForumID=17&CategoryID=5
After that, a resurface at around 100 games may help also.
Doc's Elixir is great as well! Repells oil!
I still have in use (my brother uses it now) a Storm Super Power with hundreds of games on it and it still ROCKS ! The above system was used..........
Good luck.......
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JEFF
Better....much better!
Edited on 3/17/2004 10:23 AM
Post by: Not done on March 17, 2004, 10:30:35 AM
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 17, 2004, 12:51:55 PM
quote:
That is good maintainance jef, but it doesnt extract the oil once it's absorbed into the coverstock. After about 100 games or so the oil and plastizor should be extracted.
Yes Greg, I agree.....and at that point it would be taken to a pro-shop to be done by someone who "knows" how to do it properly in a re-juvenator machine (sp?)
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JEFF
Better....much better!
Post by: Strider on March 17, 2004, 01:46:54 PM
BTM had a lengthy 2 part special about ball death. Each manufacturer had a different opinion, but Brunswick recommends heat. I don't have the articles in front of me, so I don't remember if they recommended dry heat (rejuvenator) or moist heat (bucket of hot water with Dawn).
Several people have been giving a certain trustworthy member a hard time about "blindly" following Brunswick Techniques. I meant to add this on the other post, but this is a good place as well. Brunswick is known for having long living coverstocks, so why is it so hard to believe them when they say to use heat to deoil the cover? A few people have destroyed ball by taking the temp too high, cooling too fast...., but only a few very recently have claimed to have a ball destroyed and using the recommended procedures.
BTW, I have used the hot water/Dawn technique on several balls. I've seen some stuff come out, but not noticed a huge performance difference. Others seem to notice a huge improvement. I just tried the Hook Again system. I've been throwing the ball so poorly lately, so I can't tell if it made a big difference or not.
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Penn State Proud
Post by: Strider on March 17, 2004, 04:26:11 PM
I'm curious as to the exact method you used because from what I've read and seen, you are the exception. The Danger Zone should have been hard to kill, but the HPH was not known to be one of Brunswick's best releases. Many people weren't happy about it's long term performance. Egg shaped is one thing, but if the ball wasn't hooking or hitting enough for you to try heat, what did you really lose? Did they go from a 10 out of the box to a 6 before heat to a 3 after heat, for example?
How do you know that the "snot nosed" Ebonite graduates aren't putting poisons or ball harming (long term) chemicals in Hook It? Isn't it too early to tell? My proshop went to seminar where a tech got a little dust up his nose and it took a long time for his nose to stop bleeding. Also the tech or customer support person may not be very knowledgeable, but I'd be willing to bet that each company has sharp R&D people.
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Penn State Proud
Post by: Steven on March 17, 2004, 04:49:47 PM
quote:
Several people have been giving a certain trustworthy member a hard time about "blindly" following Brunswick Techniques. I meant to add this on the other post, but this is a good place as well. Brunswick is known for having long living coverstocks, so why is it so hard to believe them when they say to use heat to de-oil the cover?
Strider: Good to see you reply. I looked for that "trustworthy member" you referenced, but couldn't find anything posted. I see that Greg Hoppe is getting whacked around (appropriately), but I'll keep my eye out for the other poster mentioned.
I'm about to post a long winded message, so please bear with me. This is an important topic, and I'm in the mood to ramble, so here it goes......
I work part-time in a proshop, and I do most of the stuff my friend (and owner of the shop) doesn't want to -- clean balls, polish balls, sand balls, refinish balls, de-oil balls in the Revivor ball oven, revive balls using Hook Again, etc. In fact, I've bestowed upon myself the official title of CMT (Coverstock Management Technician). I'm not proclaiming myself to be an expert in the area, but I think I've 'been there, done that' about as much as anyone when it comes to dealing with coverstocks.
Anyway, I've put dozens (and dozens) of balls through the Revivor oven -- just about every make and model you can think of. And many of the same balls I've put through several times. And recently we've made good use of the Hook Again system as an alternative/ compliment to the Revivor. Given this experience -- for what it's worth -- the following are my thoughts:
On the Revivor, I have never had a ball crack or otherwise show damage from a given treatment. I'm always very careful to not leave a ball inside for too long, and covers rarely get too hot to easily take the ball out of the unit. However, along the lines of "Greg T"'s comments, I believe there are longer term negative effects that come into play. The heat not only extracts oil, but I believe some of the plastisizer as well -- it's a byproduct of the process and is simply unavoidable. I'm not a chemist, but I'm fairly certain this is happening. This coupled with shell expansion/contraction due to the heating and cooling cycle render the shell more brittle than it was before treatment. And each successive treatment makes the problem worse. I don't believe its just chance that several of the balls that we've put through the machine more than once eventually develop cracks in strange spots. And the phenomena is not limited to any specific manufacturers. I've seen it on Brunswick, Lane#1, Storm, and Ebonite equipment.
On Hook Again, I've only witnessed good results. I was as sceptical as anyone at first, but I've seen balls that were "dead" in every sense of the word acquire new life. The product is new, so its hard to make any long term predictions of possible ill effects. However, my sense is that Ebonite has a winner on it's hands.
Finally, there was a statement by "Greg T" that needs to be emphasized:
quote:
Keep in mind that a lot of these so called techs know nothing. They are clean out of college, snot nosed kids sitting in front of a computer and accessing a database as you speak to them. How many actually seek the proper answers to questions? No one knows.
While the above might be a somewhat of an exageration, there is more fact than fiction. I've had a number of back-and-forth technical conversations with Dale Garner at Columbia and Bill Monce at Track, and these guys are top notch; they definitely know their business. But they're also honest about what they don't know, and it's become clear to me that ball companies really know very little about the science (and art) of on-going coverstock maintenance. And the reason is simple -- that's not their core business. They simply don't spend much time thinking about or doing R&D on this stuff. The cold and hard fact is that anytime money and human bandwith is required, it had better generate revenue or it's not going to happen.
I welcome any input.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Edited on 3/17/2004 6:19 PM
Post by: Strider on March 17, 2004, 05:10:39 PM
Yes, you know I was implying Greg. I believe he was telling people to use exactly what Brunswick recommends to refresh equipment. I know he isn't open minded when talking about cleaning regiments, but for oil removal, heat is what Brunswick recommends.
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Penn State Proud
Post by: freedomrules3 on March 17, 2004, 05:53:23 PM
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AS I GET OLDER I AM LESS AND LESS TOLERABLE TO CHILDISH BEHAVIOR AND MEAN PEOPLE
Post by: Borincano on March 17, 2004, 10:06:59 PM
You take care of your ball and the ball will take care of you.
Post by: Strider on March 18, 2004, 07:03:13 AM
I know some people don't like heat because a new ball never exposed to oil will sweat material out. It might be plasticizer, but that's only a guess. A new ball shouldn't have an excess of plasticizer to be removed. Ebonite says it's the beating a ball's track takes that makes the plasticizer migrate there.
I don't buy a lot of high end equipment, so maybe I don't witness ball death as much as others. Loss of reaction is usually noticed more with the megahookers, sometimes with very snappy equipment. I've soaked 2 balls in hot water + Dawn, had one rejuvinated, and had one run through Hook Again.
I know Steven tracks all games put on his equipment and is a big time maintenance guy. If any of us outside of the industry knows coverstock cleaning, it's him. I wouldn't doubt covers get a little more brittle with each heat treatment. However, if a ball is near death, you are not taking a big chance at getting back a big chunk of performance. No matter what Brunswick says, I don't think balls should be heated on a regular basis, only when nothing else seems to work. Also, how many regular bowlers leave their equipment in a hot trunk on a regular basis? Maybe ball death and brittle coverstocks have more to do with long term abuse than an occassional heat treatment? I don't know. My equipment is only left in the trunk a few times a year due to an odd work schedule.
Greg T, how can you say that the dishwasher is the safest way to use heat? What do you base this on?
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Penn State Proud
Post by: kendog on March 18, 2004, 10:14:12 AM
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kendog avoids spare shooting at all costs
just throw strikes
Post by: Steven on March 18, 2004, 01:11:50 PM
quote:
Unless Brunswick was misquoted in BTM, they recommend heat to remove oil from the coverstock.
Strider: Brunswick was not misquoted. They did in fact recommend dry heat as a method for rejuvenation.
Again, I can only relay what I've experienced personally. Baking a ball in most cases will give some initial life back to reaction. Not all balls react equally well to heat, but in most cases, you will see some initial benefit. The problem is with heating the same ball multiple times. With each successive treatment, the results last for a shorter period of time, and the cover develops a greater chance of developing problems -- i.e. cracking. Smoking and drugs usually take a little time to catch up with you, but these habits eventually do you in. Baking balls is a similar experience. Brunswick would have had to spend considerable time and effort to track multiple balls with multiple bakes over time to track longer term effects. I really doubt that they did this.
You're correct that if a ball appears to be "dead", then what do you have to lose? Unfortunately, most bowlers do not really know when their equipment is losing reaction. I've seen many (too many) cases where a bowler tries to throw his particle on second shift burnt conditions, the ball rolls out (duh), and it's consequently pronounced dead. They've read that Brunswick says to throw the ball into an oven, so without knowing it, they've put the ball on a path to premature death.
It all comes down to common sense. If something seems too good to be true, it usually is, regardless of who pronounces it.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Not done on March 18, 2004, 02:54:33 PM
I never knew so many people take cleaning their balls more serious than actual bowling. Or at least it would seem that way.
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7 - 10, eh?
looks like a job for the reset button....
*presses reset button*
*random ball flies down the lane*
*ball hits 10 pin*
*ball explodes*
I knew it was too good to be true....
Post by: Steven on March 18, 2004, 03:50:37 PM
quote:
I'm sorry but I'm surprised nobody, especially Steven, spoke to this comment.
Leftside: LOL! I saw the post, and my instinct said to pounce, but I'm tired of trying to save bowlers from themselves. There is enough good information here (from several posters) for anyone with an ounce of motivation to pick up and run with. But why give up on old wives tales for maintaining equipment?
Hair blow dryers, acetone and alcohol? Go for it!
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: ZelvinDGreat on March 19, 2004, 11:50:43 AM
Post by: Not done on March 19, 2004, 11:52:29 AM
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Easy slider...
Post by: ZelvinDGreat on March 23, 2004, 02:45:56 PM
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Don't worry, its not you its the ball!!!
ZelvinDGreat
Post by: Borincano on March 24, 2004, 08:29:38 PM
quote:quote:
Just use a hair blow dryer and a mixture of acetone and alcohol to wipe off the oil that seeps out. Then use the Doc elixir. Then is your responsibility to wipe the ball every time you throw the ball.
You take care of your ball and the ball will take care of you.
I'm sorry but I'm surprised nobody, especially Steven, spoke to this comment.
Borincano,
When are you doing this??? Are you speaking to baking the equipment or regular maintenance? You do realize the importance of truly cleaning your equipment after every thrown set correct?
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LEFTside
"Another Day Another Ditch"
Post by: Doc Hollywood on March 24, 2004, 09:01:55 PM
Protewcting your investment beforehand is the way to go and avoid all of these problems. The Elixir will help in that department along with routinely wiping the ball down and cleaning on a regular basis.
Overall the hot water soak in Dawn is still by far the best way to keep the ball deep cleaned.
--------------------
Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com