Thanks everyone....went ahead and put my thumb hole in the ball and bowled Champ of champs yesterday........went 205, 237, 245....threw this ball all 3 games. Synthetic house with a bit more oil in the center than most houses and a bit longer, but good backends. I feel it was more of a christmas tree than a standard pattern wall type. Rest of the local guys struggled with over and under and I just cruised along with a mild swing and never moved my feet....great look and roll from this Action packed and this drill. Definitely very smooth and arc type path. Ball read mids very well (low rg and my faster ball speed) and did not finish too hard but good enough to carry very nicely. Not the big impressive "voodoo" move and messengers every where but very effective when others were struggling. Great ball and great drill even for a guy without a ton of revs.........thanks again, this won't be the last drill like this I try, Al