Post by: xratedbowler on November 21, 2005, 02:56:01 AM
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formally known as charles76
absolute inferno
the professonial
big block diesel
tsunami
the one
F.O.S 4 LIFE
(PLAYS AIR GUITAR TO MUSIC)!
Post by: scotts33 on November 21, 2005, 10:58:53 AM
Now, I want to know from Jeff Mop or someone that knows Columbia stuff. What was the big ring around the pin? Do they all come like that? Almost looks like a porosity blem????
Wondering.
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Scott
Edited on 11/21/2005 11:49 AM
Post by: DP3 on November 21, 2005, 12:14:00 PM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: scotts33 on November 21, 2005, 12:26:23 PM
The whole ball did look dull but that area around pin looked more discolored...yes?
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Scott
Post by: scotts33 on November 21, 2005, 12:29:39 PM
quote:
must be ok for usbc since the masters is a usbc event and not a PBA event
They/USBC would be looking for it but I just wondered. To me and anybody who has this on tape which I do not........the area around the pin looked a much different color than the rest of the ball. Anybody else see this?
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Scott
Post by: DP3 on November 21, 2005, 12:48:34 PM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: scotts33 on November 21, 2005, 12:52:43 PM
quote:
If you use a 220-320 grit sandpaper, it will be noticably lighter. That's what he did. You may do that with a ball as long as it isn't rolling over that part of the surface.
"Surface:
The surface of the ball shall be free of all depressions or grooves of specific pattern, except for holes or indentations used for gripping the ball, identification lettering and numbers, and incidental chipping or marking caused by wear.
Engraved pictures are not considered grooves of specific pattern.
No foreign material may be placed on the outer surface of the ball.
If the surface friction of the ball is altered by sanding or polishing, the entire surface of the ball must be sanded or polished.
Plugs and grips may not extend beyond the surface of the ball."
Equipment Spec Manual-Page 13 (Jan 05 Revision)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That's the way I understand it. It just looked to me that the ball Ken was using was definitely different looking than the rest of the ball....around the pin.
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Scott
Post by: DP3 on November 21, 2005, 05:27:25 PM
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-DP3
Respect the Game
Post by: Bar5003 on November 21, 2005, 06:15:16 PM
ive seen the same thing (as seen on tv) with the balls that come through my shop...the area around the pin appears lighter than the rest of the ball...if i am correct i hope this helps shed some light on the subject
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~Britton~
Post by: Strider on November 21, 2005, 08:38:05 PM
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Bar5003 on November 21, 2005, 08:45:06 PM
now if it had the original trooper's core thats a different story thats just the offset puck
i agree with you strider this wasnt a very good showing of the epx
ive seen what this ball can really do...when thrown on the right shot its amazing
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~Britton~
Post by: scotts33 on November 22, 2005, 06:09:10 AM
Btw--I think Kenny's reaction was good during practice and all week. The lanes just broke down inside for that type of ball. I also believe with less rotation Ken feels he might need to use this type of equipment to give him more. Could be wrong but that's the way I look at it....also looking at what Mike Scroggins changed to for better line and carry.
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Scott
Post by: LuckyLefty on November 22, 2005, 07:57:18 AM
I'm sure he's much better than that...when not sticking!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
Post by: shelley on November 22, 2005, 08:08:31 AM
quote:
This type of thing happens more often than not in the PBA....the ball companies try to get their premier product out in the spotlight. All you see is the label. Do we really know that is the exact same core in the ball? After all, there are tour label editions, that unless a pro bowler gives away or sells them on Ebay, the average league bowler will never see the light of day.
The way I see it, putting a different core in it makes it a different ball. Are there two EPX-T1's in the approved ball list, one with the Super Trooper core, one with the original core?
Are the Bruiser and Nemesis the same ball? They have the same cover but different cores. What about the Time Zone? And the BCB? And the Blueberry? And the Ravage? What could possibly let you think that changing the core makes it the same ball? It would have to be resubmitted for approval before it could be used in sanctioned competition.
Heck, the USBC got all pissy about the SCB having a different finish. They're not going to ignore the fact that there's a different core in the ball. What you are suggesting is cheating. Yes, there have been "Tour Edition" balls in the past, but they're separately approved and have different labels on them.
If what you say is the case, why not submit one ball for testing and another for manufacturing? That would certainly let balls like the SCB, BCB, SD-73, and other high-diff balls back into production.
SH
Edited on 11/22/2005 8:59 AM
Post by: shelley on November 22, 2005, 10:13:08 AM
quote:
Shelley,
You bring up a very interesting point and one that is very solid with facts. As far as being sanctioned, it would be in the PBA, not in the USBC as you have mentioned. In the PBA approved list, there is only one EPX T1 listed, so I can't really explain that.
It would have to be in the USBS ball list as well, since the Masters is a USBS tournament. Further, I think the PBA approved ball list has a lot more to do with who's paid their money than specifications. I wouldn't be surprised if they looked to the USBS for equipment spec certification.
quote:
All I am saying is what I have heard and my source is very reputable. Who can really explain what is going on behind the scenes? I am not trying to drum up trouble or conspiracy about the ball companies or the PBA, but I am rather intrigued by it all. I have heard about this before, but never from a source that was trusted. This time I do believe in the validity of it, coming from someone who is close to C300.
Could be a conspiracy. But I'd be loathe to tell a pro that his win and his paycheck are for naught because he used a ball that was supposed to be approved but his company subbed for a different "showcase" piece. Sure, lots of those guys throw something because of incentives (recall the WRW debaucle at the US Open last year over the GP2/WMB stuff), but if the PBA came to me and said I have to give the money back because my ball company furnished me with an illegal ball just so they could sell more, I'd be really pissed off. I probably wouldn't throw their stuff again, and I'd make sure other people, other pros knew what they were pulling.
Now, if they knew the ball was different than normal, that'd be even worse. Talk about lack of integrity. I'd hope they'd be drummed out of the PBA for that kind of cheating.
SH
Post by: RotoT on November 23, 2005, 07:07:49 AM
It has the same bleeding problem the older u-dots had. It is a EPX they had on t.v.!
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Big Tom Normile
Roto Kingdom.
Post by: shelley on November 23, 2005, 09:41:39 AM
quote:
Just replay some of the PBA telecasts and look at the color of the pin for comparison to what the production models have. Occasionally you will see they are different colors which means they are different balls which just appear to look like the production model. This is nothing new, it's been going on for years.
So it's an "old boys club" where "everyone" knows that "everyone else" cheats a little so it's ok? And they want to talk about integrity?
quote:
Also understand that the PBA does not follow all of the USBC rules.
I know. They do have different rules like the left/right switching thing. But as far as equipment goes, "approval" for the PBA means the check cleared. As I said, I would expect them to follow mostly the same rules equipment-wise as the USBS. Second, this was not a PBA tournament, it was a USBS tournament. If Muscato used a "special" EPX, even if it's "wink-wink" in the PBA, the USBS is well within their rights to call him on it.
SH
Post by: lilgrob on November 28, 2005, 12:12:54 PM