Author Topic: Rival vs. Resurgence question (Read 2189 times)

Jorge300 · « **on:** November 12, 2008, 11:35:56 PM »

First let me start off with I am RH, about 18.5 MPH, 390-400 RPM's.

I am currently throwing a Rival, drilled pin down, cg kicked out to the right about 45 deg, polished in my second shift scratch league. It was working well for the longest time. Over the last few weeks, there seems to be a little more oil and I have run into an interesting problem. It seems when we hit the second or third game, the carrydown is effecting me more then usual. My carry starts to drop and I start leaving 10 pins, even flat 10's as the ball just doesn't seem to turn the corner. But any move to the right, sends it high as it doesn't get down the lane far enough before turning over.

My first thought to solve this was to bring out my Resurgence. It is drilled exactly the same as the Rival, but currently it is still the OOB finish. I was thinking of shining this and that might be able to provide enough pop at the back to fight off the carrydown, but I think it would be too strong in the OOB as it is. Any thoughts on this? Or is there another option out there in the Columbia line that might help as well? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Jorge300

justdale · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2008, 07:56:10 AM »

There is a huge difference between the 2 balls, before you change the coverstock on the Resurgence, I would suggest that you knock a little of the shine of the Rival
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2008, 07:56:53 AM »

you first thought should be move left and not right. Its more likely the heads are going away and the ball is losing energy too soon and thats what preventing it from turning the corner. The flat 10's are a good sign of that.

With todays covers, there is more oil being soaked up in the heads than there is being moved down in the back.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Jorge300 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2008, 08:07:28 AM »

quote:
There is a huge difference between the 2 balls, before you change the coverstock on the Resurgence, I would suggest that you knock a little of the shine of the Rival
--------------------
Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

Thanks Dale. Problem with this is when I do that, the ball turns too early as the heads go away. This is why I thought the polished Resurgence might be a good solution, the polish will get it through the heads, then the stronger core/cover will push through the carrydown.
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Jorge300

Jorge300 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2008, 08:09:20 AM »

quote:
you first thought should be move left and not right. Its more likely the heads are going away and the ball is losing energy too soon and thats what preventing it from turning the corner. The flat 10's are a good sign of that.

With todays covers, there is more oil being soaked up in the heads than there is being moved down in the back.
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Bluer,
Thanks for your thoughts. I too thought of this. But when I make the move further left, then I start leaving 2 pins, 2-10's as the ball doesn't make it back through the carrydown. This is my normal move and until the last few weeks, it worked well.
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Jorge300

CHawk15 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2008, 08:46:46 AM »

Looks like the heads are burning up and the oil might be pushing down the lane. When you move left, how big of a move is it? For me with that drill when the heads start to go in a zone, a 2-1 move usually isn't enough, I usually have to move 5-7 left, soften the speed up and use a little more axis rotation to get the ball to store better. Balls with that layout typically need good head oil to work well. I have a couple of balls with that layout (Complete NV and Gambreaker) and when the heads start to go, I leave flat 10s just like your describing and it's usually a big move left to get it to hit right again. I have a Rival drilled with the pin over the bridge and CG in the palm that doesn't have that problem. So if I were you, I would go with either a second Rival drilled with the pin above bridge / CG in the palm, Momentum or an Arch Rival. I think your Resurgence will hit worse, no matter what surface you put on it given the same drilling as the Rival because the cover and core are both stronger.

I don't know what physical game adjustments you're comfortable with, but another option is to stay with the same ball and pick up the ball speed and/or loft it a bit more to get it through the heads better. You may need to move right a couple of boards as a result, but I'm sure your carry will get better. This is an adjustment I use when the fronts are burned up and there are alot of boomers on the pair that have burned up the fronts left of me. Have you been bowling against higher rev rate players the past few weeks ?

Jorge300 · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2008, 01:42:31 PM »

quote:
Looks like the heads are burning up and the oil might be pushing down the lane. When you move left, how big of a move is it? For me with that drill when the heads start to go in a zone, a 2-1 move usually isn't enough, I usually have to move 5-7 left, soften the speed up and use a little more axis rotation to get the ball to store better. Balls with that layout typically need good head oil to work well. I have a couple of balls with that layout (Complete NV and Gambreaker) and when the heads start to go, I leave flat 10s just like your describing and it's usually a big move left to get it to hit right again. I have a Rival drilled with the pin over the bridge and CG in the palm that doesn't have that problem. So if I were you, I would go with either a second Rival drilled with the pin above bridge / CG in the palm, Momentum or an Arch Rival. I think your Resurgence will hit worse, no matter what surface you put on it given the same drilling as the Rival because the cover and core are both stronger.

I don't know what physical game adjustments you're comfortable with, but another option is to stay with the same ball and pick up the ball speed and/or loft it a bit more to get it through the heads better. You may need to move right a couple of boards as a result, but I'm sure your carry will get better. This is an adjustment I use when the fronts are burned up and there are alot of boomers on the pair that have burned up the fronts left of me. Have you been bowling against higher rev rate players the past few weeks ?

CHawk, thanks for the input. I thought about a second Rival, but as well. I also thought about some other ball brands in the Ebonite family as well. I wasn't sure whether the Arch or Perfect Rival would be the better compliment for this, so your thoughts on the Arch help with that. I have tried more ball speed, but then I seem to get a erratic reaction, more probably due to user error then anything else, so I was looking for options in a ball change. I have also tried lofting, but since it is not a normal part of my game, again user error in the amount of loft creates some erratic reactions.

The first week I noticed this, we were not bowling against any real high rev players, I probably had the biggest revs. Same for this week. Last week there was another higher rev player or two, but then we were able to break the lanes down a little more and I got a more consistent reaction. It seems when I am the only high rev guy is when I run into this. I am not above saying it is all me as well, so if you think it is something stupid I am doing please let me know as well. More then likely, and as per the usual, that is probably the case, lol.
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Jorge300

ChrisLak · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2008, 01:52:45 PM »

what u can also do is jump in the middle drill up a perfect rival and then just knock some of the shine off.

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Chris Lakatosh
Columbia 300 Staffer

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2008, 04:23:01 PM »

quote:
quote:
you first thought should be move left and not right. Its more likely the heads are going away and the ball is losing energy too soon and thats what preventing it from turning the corner. The flat 10's are a good sign of that.

With todays covers, there is more oil being soaked up in the heads than there is being moved down in the back.
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Bluer,
Thanks for your thoughts. I too thought of this. But when I make the move further left, then I start leaving 2 pins, 2-10's as the ball doesn't make it back through the carrydown. This is my normal move and until the last few weeks, it worked well.
--------------------
Jorge300

Smaller move? slower speed?
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

bluerrpilot · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2008, 04:24:54 PM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
you first thought should be move left and not right. Its more likely the heads are going away and the ball is losing energy too soon and thats what preventing it from turning the corner. The flat 10's are a good sign of that.

With todays covers, there is more oil being soaked up in the heads than there is being moved down in the back.
--------------------
"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Bluer,
Thanks for your thoughts. I too thought of this. But when I make the move further left, then I start leaving 2 pins, 2-10's as the ball doesn't make it back through the carrydown. This is my normal move and until the last few weeks, it worked well.
--------------------
Jorge300

Smaller move? slower speed?

I still think that with todays equipment, there is alot less carry down than people think. Unless someone is using a low flaring and very polished ball, most times oil will get soaked up more than it will carry down.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

Author Topic: Rival vs. Resurgence question (Read 2189 times)

Jorge300

Rival vs. Resurgence question

justdale

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

bluerrpilot

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

Jorge300

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

Jorge300

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

CHawk15

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

Jorge300

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

ChrisLak

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

bluerrpilot

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question

bluerrpilot

Re: Rival vs. Resurgence question