Author Topic: Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!! (Read 4687 times)

Maine Man · « **on:** July 09, 2008, 12:40:44 AM »

I have both a Momentum and a Rival, they are both drilled Pin to PAP of 4", under the ring, cg 3" from PAP. My Momentum is a great ball, shot 300 in my state tourney, and the surface is at 4000 abralon with no polish. It gives me very, very, good length with a strong continuos backend. Great ball for medium blend house shot, and the Viper.

My question is this: What surface should I go with on my Rival? I want the ball to be stronger in the midlane than my Momentum, but still have a good backend move. When the Momentum starts to push a little, or leave some flat coners, I want to be able to switch right over to the Rival and pick up where the Momentum left off. I was thinking about going 1000 abralon with Finesse-It II polish. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. My bios are in my profile, thanks.
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MainePBA
"I''d rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Edited on 8/30/2008 6:18 AM

Jay · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2008, 04:09:15 PM »

That's actually not a bad idea Maine. I have my Rival(similar layout to yours) at 2000 abralon and it gives me a decent midlane read and kind of a hard arc. So at 1000 you should be able to get it to move early enough, and with the polish you should get the recovery you want out of it. If that doesn't work for you, maybe 1000/2000 without the polish or down to 800 with the polish might work. Although, I don't know any balls with less than 1000 that have polish so I'm not sure if that's a bad idea or not.

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2008, 04:58:49 PM »

Maine,

I hate to bring this up, as I am not upt to date on the reaction AND surface differences between the Momentum and the Rival, buuuuut
Mo Pinel had a chart at one time showing that 4000 grit Abralon, the surface of your Mo and the stock surface of the Rival, is earlier than almost every starting grit + polish, except maybe 400 grit (+ polish). Now, I & you know there's many, many levels of polish, but to BOTH read the midlane AND to retain a good backend, I'm leaning towards a lower grit than 1000 grit Abralon.

Seeing how 1000 grit Abralon is approximately 500/600 grit US scale, it's not a bad starting off point. I'm just saying be prepared to resand lower, if necessary.

By the way, what polish do you intend to use?
It can make a big difference. (I'd suggest a non-abrasiveotherwise, you're changing your 1000 grit Abralon to an unknown quantity.)

Good luck. By the way & FWIW, I like the whole idea of differentiating those two balls this way!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Maine Man · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:15:23 PM »

Thanks for the responses guys. Charlest, I see what you mean about the abralon conversion, and if the ball (Rival) does not pick up quick enough, I was planning on going to a lower sanding grit (maybe 320 or 400). I am going to use the Finesse It II polish, as it seems to leave the ball very tacky and (at least I am pretty sure) it does not change the underlying grit of the ball. Charlest, if there is another polish that you would recommend, I would appreciate the feedback. Thanks again guys, and once I get a chance to try these side by side I will post some results on the differences or similarities seen between the two balls.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

onlybowling · « **Reply #4 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:29:32 PM »

All of the 3M Finess it/Perfect it products are compounding products. They are abrasive.
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OnlyBowling

justdale · « **Reply #5 on:** July 09, 2008, 08:00:57 PM »

My response to you would be to leave it at box finish I absolutely love my Rival, and the drilling I have on mine works great for what I want ( pin up above and in the middle of my fingers, cg middle of palm, I know this is a drilling for long and strong, but the mid-lane reaction I get is just what i need).

Without watching you throw a few balls it would not be in your best interest for me to recommend a particular drilling, that is up to your pro shop operator
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

Maine Man · « **Reply #6 on:** July 09, 2008, 08:26:59 PM »

So if the Finesse-It II is an abrasive, then what polish would you guys recommend to use on the Rival that wouldn't change the underlying grit of the sanded surface? I have some Ebonite Factory Finish and some Brunswick High Gloss, but I would like some opinions on some of the other polishes out there, like Beans or Snake Oil. Thanks again guys.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

themagician · « **Reply #7 on:** July 09, 2008, 09:55:02 PM »

I do believe brunswick has no abrasive but the ebonite stuff does. I'd try the brunswick.
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http://www.absolutebowling.com

Maine Man · « **Reply #8 on:** July 09, 2008, 09:59:28 PM »

Thanks magicmike.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:12:09 PM »

quote:
Thanks for the responses guys. Charlest, I see what you mean about the abralon conversion, and if the ball (Rival) does not pick up quick enough, I was planning on going to a lower sanding grit (maybe 320 or 400). I am going to use the Finesse It II polish, as it seems to leave the ball very tacky and (at least I am pretty sure) it does not change the underlying grit of the ball. Charlest, if there is another polish that you would recommend, I would appreciate the feedback. ...
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Sorry. I was trying to be so cautious about this one, I saw the Finesse-It II at first but then forgot about it, as I was phrasing the reply. F-It II is just fine it is, as far as I know, a non-abrasive polish. I use it also, but lately between Lanemasters, Brunswick's and now, Valentino's Snake Oil, I have not used it in quite a while. (and now I'm retesting Secret Sauce.

)

1000 grit Abralon is a fine initial step, as near as I can tell. I do this balancing act a lot myself: fine grits, like 2000 and 4000 Abralon, vs lower grits + polish.

Since even 3M says Finesse-IT II is safe for clear coats, I think whatever abrasive is in it is so fine as to be virtually non-abrasive. Technically all polishes, even "non-abrasives", have a very smooth edged abrasive in them. That's how you get the shine.

So I place Finesse-It II in the same class as Bowling ball-specific non-abrasive polishes, like Lanemasters Factory Finish, Brunswick's High Gloss polish, and Valentino's Snake Oil.

Abrasive bowling ball polishes like Beans'/Lane#1's Secret Sauce, Brunswick's Rough Buff, Storm's Reacta- and Xtra-Shine and Lanemasters Extended Length polish have relatively aggressive abrasives in them. These will smooth out even 400 grit sanded balls!
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Edited on 7/9/2008 10:43 PM

Maine Man · « **Reply #10 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:16:52 PM »

Thank you charlest, I always hold your opinions on this subject in the highest regard. I have been wanting to do this type of two ball test for a while, but could not find a good matchup until I had the Momentum and the Rival. As soon as I have some valid data across THS, PBA, and Sport shots, I will re-post what I ended up doing, as well as the results and the next step to take with the finishes on each, if any. Thanks guys, talk to you soon.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** July 09, 2008, 10:47:49 PM »

quote:
Thank you charlest, I always hold your opinions on this subject in the highest regard. I have been wanting to do this type of two ball test for a while, but could not find a good matchup until I had the Momentum and the Rival. As soon as I have some valid data across THS, PBA, and Sport shots, I will re-post what I ended up doing, as well as the results and the next step to take with the finishes on each, if any. Thanks guys, talk to you soon.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Thank you.
I try to help. I also try to let my ego stay out of this so if anyone thinks I am saying something wrong, I am probably unaware of it and it is unintentional. I can learn like everyone else. What I have learned, I am only passing it on to you. Save it up and pass it along to someone else, especially if it works out for you.

As I said a few times before, don't thank me when you read it. Thank me when AND IF it works for you. If it doesn't work, let me know and I can either correct my own knowledge database or help you get to the right answer/situation.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Unofficial Ballreviews.com FAQ

Maine Man · « **Reply #12 on:** August 01, 2008, 10:11:41 PM »

Allright, I was finally able to test these two balls out over a couple of different conditions, and the results were fantastic. I was looking to get more midlane punch with a little less anuglarity from the Rival as compared to the Momentum, and that is exactly what I have.

Surfaces

Momentum: 4000 Abralon (No Polish)

Rival: 1000 Abralon w/ Finesse-It II Polish

Both balls are drilled with identical Pin to PAP distances and cg positions, with ending weights (side, finger, top) nearly identical.

Results

On a fresh THS (40 ft.), the Momentum is a killer. The 4000 surface really gives the ball the length, but without the polish on it, it really arcs hard on the backend. After a complete three game set with this ball in which I started to lose some carry near the end of game three, I went to a three game set with the Rival on the same pair of lanes. The games for the Momentum were: 259, 248, 225. I played the Rival on the same line as I left off with the Momentum, and it literally gave me the look and hit I had with my Momentum in game one. The Rival checked up about 3-5 feet earlier than the Momentum but it gave a super strong continuous move through the pindeck. I was actually able to move a little deeper on the lane and still carry better as the lane oil pushed with the Rival. The games with the Rival were: 289, 238, 269.

I bowled on the Scorpion and the Viper with these two balls. The Momentum was the perfect piece on the Viper. The ball excelled on the 37 foot pattern, bowling games of 219, 227, 238. This ball has the ability to open up the pattern and create area as the lanes begin to break down and change. I feel that if I had bowled more games on this pattern, the scores would have continued to increase. On the Scorpion, it was the Rival all the way. This ball had no problem handling the 42 ft. of oil and shined with the carry and hit it delivered. I was able to start out playing it fairly tight, but found that I could move around a bit and find carry on a few different lines. The games on the Scorpion were 239, 225, 248. I feel that this ball is so versatile, it could be used on a variety of patterns.

I hope this information helps, I know it was a great test for me playing with identical drillings and complimenting surfaces between the two balls. I am looking forward to bringing these two balls to all of my tournament and league stops this coming season. Thanks again to charlest and those of you who answered my original post on this subject.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2008, 10:18:44 PM »

Finesse it II on my stuff seems to be non abrasive ie to only add length and smoothness to the reaction when I have it added to my stuff.

The closest I have seen in bowling ball polishes is Storm Reacta Shine which seems to add length and add just a tad bit of tackiness and reaction off the dry!

Another polish that is interesting for me is Ebonites Particle polish laying around from a few years ago. It adds length and decreases reaction off the dry when I have tried it! Very similar to Track's

???Delayed reaction??

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS the most reactive polish I have ever used is Black magic action attack. Want a JUMP off friction.....Action Attack!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Maine Man · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2008, 09:25:58 AM »

quote:
Finesse it II on my stuff seems to be non abrasive ie to only add length and smoothness to the reaction when I have it added to my stuff.

The closest I have seen in bowling ball polishes is Storm Reacta Shine which seems to add length and add just a tad bit of tackiness and reaction off the dry!

Another polish that is interesting for me is Ebonites Particle polish laying around from a few years ago. It adds length and decreases reaction off the dry when I have tried it! Very similar to Track's ???Delayed reaction??

Thanks for the response LL. I really liked the reaction of the Rival with the Finesse-It II. It gave me the length I was looking for, but did not hinder in any way the backend movement of the ball. I am really looking forward to performing this same set up on a couple of other balls with angular length drillings, and I will report back when I have results of that also. Thanks for all the input guys, and I hope what I posted helps someone else out.
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MainePBA
"I'd rather be a conservative nut job than a liberal with no nuts and no job."

Author Topic: Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!! (Read 4687 times)

Maine Man

Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!!

Jay

Re: Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!!

charlest

Re: Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!!

Maine Man

Re: Momentum / Rival Comparison Final Results!!

onlybowling

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justdale

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Maine Man

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themagician

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Maine Man

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charlest

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Maine Man

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charlest

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Maine Man

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LuckyLefty

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Maine Man

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