Post by: Frederick on July 11, 2011, 01:02:33 PM
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 12, 2011, 01:54:28 AM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: TWOHAND834 on July 12, 2011, 05:09:47 AM
Thats a shame because Columbia makes some really good equipment right now.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: lbss831 on July 12, 2011, 02:17:12 PM
Slim300
"It's not how you start,it's how you finish."
Post by: Xx 12 X 300 xX on July 12, 2011, 02:37:08 PM
Personally I think the Columbia and Ebonite equipment is excellent. They all have very good mid lane read, and strong continuation through the pins. With Ebonite now making a few skid/flip pieces the combination of the Columbia and Ebonite products are great to build an arsenal with.
I find their equipment really reads tougher patterns better, and their high end balls don't seem to over flare like other brands trying to produce the strongest balls ever in the history of the game.
There is not much talk of balls these days because there are TOO many balls on the market.
Post by: trash heap on July 12, 2011, 04:26:40 PM
I kind of disagree with this. I never have been able to find a good ball from Columbia 300 that worked on Dry. The coverstocks on all their reactives (including ones for medium to light oil) really seem to be stronger than others.
Post by: Brian Green on July 12, 2011, 05:14:55 PM
"USAbowlersmart.com - only the best Survive"
PBA East region member
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 13, 2011, 12:06:28 AM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: Xx 12 X 300 xX on July 13, 2011, 04:54:32 AM
I very rarely see any Brunswick or Columbia equipment anymore locally. I do see mostly Storm, and some Ebonite.
There are a couple shops in the area that are pretty much Ebonite Brands, those bowling centers or areas are obviously more brand loyal.
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 7/13/2011 at 5:15 AM
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 13, 2011, 05:56:35 AM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: stopncrank on July 13, 2011, 06:11:12 AM
10-15 years ago this logic would have been true, but with the internet-videos, reviews, and websites have offset this trend. Theres way too much access to info on any new release for a customer to not be able to be informed about a particular ball, even if he deals with an EBI, or Storm/Roto shop for that matter.
Also, even if a customer comes into an EBI shop but wants a Storm ball, I doubt seriously given these economic times that the shop wouldnt sell them what they want. Granted, they might try to persuade the customer to that shops brand, but in the end what the customer wants brand wise is what they want, and a sale is a sale.
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
Edited by stopncrank on 7/13/2011 at 6:16 AM
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 13, 2011, 07:52:15 AM
What I was referring to happened a few months ago. In order to get their additional percentage off on EBI products they have to sell "X" amount product and have EBI all over the inside of the shop with no other manufactures "ads" present. They also said not to display new balls from manufactures. If you spent the money for "NEW" product to sell and someone tells you this what would your reaction be?
Now if you had a business and carried different products from different manufactures and then one says these things I would probably have an issue with it. I guess if you decided to pimp all EBI products then it doesn't matter. As a consumer not big on most EBI products you can guess where my business is not going.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: Xx 12 X 300 xX on July 13, 2011, 08:56:38 AM
I'm not trying to bash you, but your logic towards Ebonite is flawed, and the "choice" to be one of their pro shops.
Your complaining about Ebonite because Ebonite has a program where you become an Ebonite "sponsored" pro shop and then Ebonite expects you to put their products on the shelf over other products. Why are you trying to become an Ebonite pro shop if you want to "play the field" Your logic makes no sense at all. If you want the discounts and the recognition of an Ebonite pro shop than you abide by their rules.
You have no concept at all of how this business agreement with Ebonite runs. You sign up for a program with a parent company, they have every right to tell you how to display the product in the pro shop. You signed up with them to take advantage of their discounts and brand recognition, thus they have every right to ask you to keep other products out of the shop. Your signing up to be an EBONITE PRO SHOP, not Joe Blow Bowling Balls Pro Shop.
You want all the freebies, and the perks of the program, but then you don't want to do anything for the people who are giving you those perks.
They are protecting their brand from the cheap people out there that sign up for these programs and then take the bowling balls, the perks, the name of being an "elite" pro shop and then never selling any of their equipment. It's protecting the brand, and being an exclusive pro shop that offers only Ebonite products.
Is it really that hard to understand? Ebonite doesn't force you to sign a contract with them if you don't like the terms of the contract.
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 7/13/2011 at 9:35 AM
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 7/13/2011 at 9:35 AM
Post by: ImBackInTheGame on July 13, 2011, 09:48:28 AM
After Barnes and Ciminelli won with the World Beater, I thought that ball would have been a big seller. It looks nice, has a fun name, and it's a "winner". I don't know why people want these check mark/hockey stick reactions, the smooth arc to me is much more controllable.
I have a nib world beater for sale if anyone is interested, lol...
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 13, 2011, 10:30:53 AM
I understand how it works, and the different levels of it. I also see how a shop that was an entry level has been pushed to be an upper tier because their isn't one in the area. If that is what the owner is ok with, I'm guessing he is, then that is fine. I think it is funny to watch, since none of it helps unload the Columbia,/Ebonite balls they keep sending him and collecting dust on the shelves. That would be a flaw. If he just sold Track and Hammer from EBI I'd imagine he would be doing a lot better since he wouldn't have so much of the other two still sitting the shelf.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: cliffbarnesproshop on July 14, 2011, 04:16:33 PM
The general market for C300 and Ebonite is much larger then your market Kid. C300 is very strong in certain areas of the country. Same with Ebonite, Hammer, Track. We sell more C300 then anything else with Hammer/Ebo/Track being shared equally. Pro shops are not forced to sign up but they are forced to adhere to the rules, with everything that EBI is doing to promote my business why would i not reciprocate it to support theirs?
Charlotte NC- Inside George Pappas' Park Lanes
Mooresville NC - Inside George Pappas' Victory Lanes
Winston Salem NC - Inside AMF Winston Salem
Greensboro NC - Inside AMF Major League
Warner Robins GA - Inside Gold Cup
Brunswick GA - Inside Strike Zone
Pooler GA - Inside Frames N Games
www.CliffBarnesProShop.com
Mooresville NC - Inside George Pappas' Victory Lanes
Winston Salem NC - Inside AMF Winston Salem
Greensboro NC - Inside AMF Major League
Warner Robins GA - Inside Gold Cup
Brunswick GA - Inside Strike Zone
Pooler GA - Inside Frames N Games
www.CliffBarnesProShop.com
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 14, 2011, 04:49:53 PM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: jls on July 22, 2011, 01:46:04 PM
It's the off season...and the holiday period...Bowlers may be taking a break...
Sales of Columbia balls did well for us last year...
They will be fine...
jls
Post by: kidlost2000 on July 22, 2011, 02:17:39 PM
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: jls on July 22, 2011, 02:33:06 PM
Sir, "sold one" now that's some funny stuff...
Heck, I just saw another World Beater last Tuesday... 
And the ball worked well for Barnes...Heck if the WB had been out a year earlier, I'll bet Barnes
could have taken that girl with the Mission... Miss Kelly...
jls
Post by: actsbowler21 on August 17, 2011, 01:25:29 PM
I guess it's market based really...I have few who ask for the Brunswick and Storm products...And I sell a ton of C300 equipment (balls, bags, accessories) in my shop...I don't really have to try when it comes to selling Eruptions and Freezes..World Beaters were easy to market..It's how the brand is promoted and advertised around your area..Simply putting up ad sheets is not going to get a ball off the wall..Getting the ball into the hands of your better bowlers in the area and getting the product around town with proper information is key..I have a few guys who brand themselves to each brand under EBI..I throw all Hammer, while I have a guy who chooses to throw all C300, one throws all Track, and one throws Ebonite..None of which I asked to do, it was their choice..They help the pro shop and the brands out by bowling around town and talking about the equipment as we have educated them to do...They are living, breathing, advertisement for us and they do a hell of a job working with me.. My best sellers over the last couple of months were Cyclone, Arson, Eruption, 503c, 300t and 718a..Freeze has always sold well..
Even though I don't display other companies doesn't stop bowlers from coming and ordering them...And not one person has been upset with us for not having anything but EBI on the wall.. If you're a good promoter, and understand how to talk to your bowlers and have your customers help you with branching out, you shouldn't have problems moving product
Justin Buford
Winston-Salem, North Carolina
Cliff Barnes Pro Shop
AMF Winston Salem Lanes, Winston-Salem, NC (General Manager)
AMF All-Star Lanes, Greensboro, NC
George Pappas Park Lanes, Charlotte, NC
Georga Pappas Victory Lanes, Mooresville, NC
Strike Zone, Brunswick,GA Gold Cup Russell Parkway, Warner Robins, GA
Frames n' Games, Pooler, GA
http://www.cliffbarnesproshop.com
Post by: jls on August 17, 2011, 02:35:25 PM
Well it's bowling season, not JUNE...And Columbia's products seem to be getting off to a GREAT
start...
The Eruption will be a great mid priced ball for medium conditions, and the Ransom Demand has
gotten great reviews from BTM...
Heck, if the ball is half as good as BTM says, we could sell a Zillion of them..."a zillion, that's
a lot"
Oh and BTW, we are still selling World Beaters...and they don't have a $50 rebate, yet are still
selling...
jls
Edited by jls on 8/17/2011 at 2:36 PM
Post by: mainzer on August 17, 2011, 03:36:05 PM
the sky is falling!!!
I have seen a lot of around here, more than I have seen used around here in very long time, I may not care for the product but they are going in the right direction
MainzerPower
Post by: calired67 on August 27, 2011, 07:06:06 PM
Post by: bwproshop on September 06, 2011, 05:39:26 PM
I think Columbia is much better since the buy out. they had good pieces with the Beast, Piranha, purple Quake, the kinda fell off the map. They had a good piece here and there like the Chaos and the Action, but everything for them was let's see how much we can make a ball hook (like it is now with 900 global/AMF).
Now they have a good variety of stuff for almost any condition. the Freeze is a great piece that is really underrated, the Ransom is an excellent pearl, the Demand is good on just about everything. There are still bowlers who like stuff that is easy to read and doesn't either go 40 feet and change direction or roll forward at the foul line.
"Now you can Bowl To Win with Hammer, Track, and Columbia"!!
Sean Davidson
Bowler's World Pro Shop
Post by: Track_Fanatic on September 06, 2011, 08:44:32 PM
Well Sean, I totally disagree with you on your assessment of 900 Global/ AMF equipment. They are not by any means as you call it 'hook monsters'. Both of their lines cover all sorts of conditions at a much more competitive price than most manufacturers. I know everyone is entitled to their own opinions. Let me make somewhat of an educated guess, you tend to sell more Hammer/Columbia/Track equipment in your shop. I get this based on part of your signature. It also sounds like you are anti 900 Global/AMF. If a customer came into your shop and says, 'I'm interested in a Double Clutch Pearl' (wouldn't surprise me if you don't even have a AMF ball in your shop) With you being in the business, would try and talk the customer into purchasing a different manufacturers ball mainly the 3 listed in your signature line or would you actually order the ball that the customer is asking for? 900 Global/AMF's price to performance ratio is much better than what comes out of Hopkinsville. I do have a Burst which I truly love and have bowled well with it, place any other ball in that companies line in my hand and there isn't enough lane conditioner to keep it on the correct side of the pocket or it runs out of gas and 'pukes' unless we talk about the OLD Track and Columbia equipment.
Edited by Track_Fanatic on 9/6/2011 at 8:43 PM
Post by: Easy10pins on September 17, 2011, 05:10:16 AM
Just my observations.
1. IMO, the popularity of a ball is based on what the pro shop guy is selling, what the pro shop guy is using and what other bowlers are scoring well with. (your average league/recreational bowler).
2. Pretty colors/smells sell balls. Some bowlers are enthralled with watching a pretty ball go down the lane. I bowled against a woman during league who has a Hammer Epidemic and yet throws it straight at the head pin every time. Although I do like the fragrance of the Storms Tropical line up. They smell like Old Spice. LOL
3. Back in the PBA's heydays, whatever ball the pros on TV were using/won with would pretty much be sold out within the week.
4. I picked up an Outburst and Freeze this week and couldn't be happier. Both balls were highly recommended by the pro shop guy. It gives me a nice 1-2 punch for league play as both pieces are incredibly versatile.
Columbia, please bring back the Messenger. :-)
I use whatever ball works for me.
Post by: The Bowling Shop Tyson on September 21, 2011, 09:25:13 PM
To the comment saying EBI was forcing shops to take other brands down and not display ads or anything, that couldn't be further from truth. Sure, a company would like to have only their stuff displayed, but unless there is a contract between manufacturer and shop of some sort, they cannot dictate that, nor would they. If a shop went forward and displayed only EBI stuff and took all else down, that was done strictly on their own accord, and not at all by EBI telling them to do so. If they told you that they were told that, that's all it was, telling you so, but it's not really the case. That's your mistake for being gullible and believing it.
As far as success of Ebonite and Columbia, sure, some areas of the country will be better represented by certain brands where other parts by other brands, but in no way does that mean that's how it is everywhere. Between our 2 physical shop locations, we sell very differently between all manufacturers, and that is only 25 miles apart.
The Bowling Shop
All the latest equipment at the lowest prices!
Post by: TamerBowling on October 19, 2011, 10:33:17 AM
I think this issue of what sells where is very local in nature. I wouldn't even call it regional. I imagine that all manufacturers recognize that it is the local shops that sell the stuff. Marketing is marketing. Of course, EBI would want to have as much of their stuff on the walls in a local shop as possible. If the pro shop pushes what they have, that's what will sell. Many people still trust their shop. In the end, wherever I go around the world, whatever the shop in the area or center is putting on their shelves, that's what the bowlers there are throwing. Regardless if they are asking shops or forcing them, it's good marketing for EBI to want their 4 brands on the wall.
My old shop in PA had very few Columbia products on the shelf. He got 3 Freezes, guess what people started throwing? He had no Brunswick equipment. Guess what people were not throwing?
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Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussionsUSBC Certified Level I
Post by: Good Times Good Times on October 19, 2011, 10:44:43 AM
Still throw my Jazz from time to time....
GetOffMe10Pin
"America was established not to create wealth but to realize a vision, to realize an ideal - to discover and maintain liberty among men." - Woodrow WilsonPost by: stopncrank on October 19, 2011, 12:22:52 PM
I live close to the area actsbowler operates his shop, actually all of Cliff's shops in this area are very well run and sell quite a bit of product.
While they are mostly EBI shops, they will sell you whatever you want...and have to second that what they do with their shop staffers(if you will) really gets the word out on new stuff for them-this works, at least in this area....
As for Columbia, I have drilled a few in the last year and they were good stuff. As for me personally though, I liked the older Columbia stuff like the Messengers and the old Boss series much better, jmo.
As for my city, I live/bowl about 30-45 mins. from Acts shop, and our local pro shops(2 independant owned) are not EBI affiliated. Out of the EBI brands, in my home center the majority would have to be Hammer/Track split, actually other than the pro shop operators, very few Columbia stuff now. Also, in my city you will see very few who are "brand loyal", I'd say 90% or more use a mix of brands.
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
Post by: ithinkican on October 19, 2011, 01:07:24 PM
they are falling behind. storm, roto grip, ebonite, and hammer are the most popular around here at least. track is rising fast as well. very few people throw columbia around here. unless its the freeze. that ball is all over the place down here
Post by: Strapper_Squared on October 19, 2011, 07:31:44 PM
They were bought... and look where they are now.
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Post by: kidlost2000 on October 19, 2011, 07:40:23 PM
Most people don't see a difference in the four companies of Ebi/Track/Columbia/Hammer. It is one blob of a company.
I'd be curious to know how different the covers truly are for each company since that is one of the biggest expenses. Or if all four use the same covers with just small differences for each through the course of a production run.
"1 of 1."
Post by: stopncrank on October 20, 2011, 08:13:12 AM
Around here most would disagree with you Kid, at least in my area there are more than a few who will not touch Ebonite but swear by Track, and has nothing to do with brand loyalty as much as ball reaction...actually I would guess EBI's situation is much like a Nascar owner with multiple teams. While they might be owned by one entity, and they might share certain info, at the end of the day they are ran as seperate companies...one thing I've always wondered and maybe somebody in the know can chime in here, does each specific brand under the EBI umbrella have its own R&D team, as well as coverstock guru's, and do they freely share this info between the brands?
Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....