Author Topic: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball? (Read 8893 times)

leftyinsnellville · « **on:** December 19, 2008, 07:27:40 AM »

I just picked up a bunch of Abralon pads ranging from 180 to 4000. I would like to keep them in shape as long as possible. What's the minimum number of passes over the ball on a spinner at low speed that you would do for a resurface to still get the desired effect but not wear out the pads on only two or three balls? How many passes for just a touch up?

I'd be grateful to anyone willing to share their experiences.

Thanks in advance.

Lefty
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220...221...whatever it takes.

Berreez · « **Reply #1 on:** December 19, 2008, 03:42:29 PM »

http://www.valentinobowling.com/videos.html
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GO ARMY

BowlSpot Stats:
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tenpinspro · « **Reply #2 on:** December 19, 2008, 04:16:59 PM »

Hey lefty,

Personally I never tried to resurface with abralon, just use them mainly for fining. On slow speed, I do no more then 5 mins. I teach my guys (who I make do their own stuff) to hold on the top and count 10 seconds, then move your hand down to the next section and count 15-20 seconds and so on. As we move down on a ball, the circumference becomes larger so it takes more time to cover that area evenly overall. Then repeat till I get the desired look and feel.

I either use my Haus or rougher sandpaper (do not use sandpaper on particles though) for deep sanding on the surface before I fine to whatever grit desired.

For those who don't have a spinner, doing it by hand with abralon can also provide pretty good results (but I'm lazy, I'll use my spinner). Check in with Charlest for his opinion, he's very knowledgeable in this area. Hope this helps some..
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Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 12/19/2008 5:18 PM

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** December 19, 2008, 05:26:54 PM »

quote:
I just picked up a bunch of Abralon pads ranging from 180 to 4000. I would like to keep them in shape as long as possible. What's the minimum number of passes over the ball on a spinner at low speed that you would do for a resurface to still get the desired effect but not wear out the pads on only two or three balls? How many passes for just a touch up?

I'd be grateful to anyone willing to share their experiences.

Thanks in advance.

Lefty
--------------------
220...221...whatever it takes.

Not to be rude, but I think this phrase,
"to still get the desired effect but not wear out the pads on only two or three balls",
is either missing the point or maybe you didn't want to say exactly this.

For me the point is to get the effect desired. period.
Not to save the abrasive, although I never want to waste the abrasive. Abralon (and Valentino's pads) are very easy to use and too easy to overuse, thinking we're doing a better job.

Like, Rick, I have not yet used Abralon to re-surface a ball (vs refresh the finish), because they are too expensive (and I don't own a Haus machine.

)
I use either maroon SB nylon pads or wet/dry sandpaper.

I do use Abralon & Valentino pads to change the surface, usually to take them up or down a notch at a time. I also use them to remove polish, WHEN I KNOW the surface under the polish is close to where I want the new surface to be.

Example: ball is at 2000 grit Abralon + non-abrasive polish, like Snake Oil or Lanemasters polish, and I want to take the ball to 4000 grit Abralon matte. I'd probably use a 2000 grit Abrlaon pad followed by a 4000 grit Abralon pad. The 2000 grit would get a little more wear because it would be removing/changing the polished surface back to a safe baseline, then a light, quicker application of/with a 4000 grit pad for the final finish.

The use time of the 2000 grit pad might be a 30 - 45 seconds per 2/3 ball, followed by maybe 20 - 30 seconds per bottom 2/3 of the ball with the 4000 grit pad.
(Ball sitting in spinner's cup has 2/3 of the top exposed. Turn it over and the bottom 2/3 is exposed for an overlap of approx of 1/3.)

FWIW I get about 2 - 4 full balls use of a 4000 grit pad, when lightly used, just to take balls from 2000 grit Ab to 4000 Grit Abralon.
2000 grit pads get 3 - 5 full balls.
1000 grit pads get 4 - 6 full balls, depending on use.
I have not used any Abralon/Valentino pads below 1000 grit.
Always with water.

Hope this helps.
I know there are some aspects I left out, but this was as detailed as I can get.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 12/21/2008 9:02 AM

tenpinspro · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2008, 12:00:37 AM »

quote:
SO NOT TRUE......................

Take your Pro-Sect and draw a straight line 13 1/2" on a ball. Now placed a dot at one end on line and sit the ball on a spinner so that dot is at TDC. It takes the same amount of time for that line to rotate no matter where on the line!

And you teach??

WOW!!

quote:
Hey lefty,

so it takes more time to cover that area evenly overall.

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 12/19/2008 5:18 PM

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Don't sing it, bring it!!

Okay Guido, good point but you're forgetting one more variable/factor that comes into play...."surface area".

Surface area of a sphere is calculated with this formula..4piR(squared) with R being the radius. As we extend outward from center (top of the ball) we're extending the radius which then increases the surface area geometrically.

With all things being equal, speed of the spinner is constant, assuming pressure and area covered by our hand is the same, it would physically take less time to cover the surface area with a shorter radius compared to an area with a longer radius. Hope this helps some....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Mike Austin · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2008, 05:38:35 PM »

quote:
SO NOT TRUE......................

Take your Pro-Sect and draw a straight line 13 1/2" on a ball. Now placed a dot at one end on line and sit the ball on a spinner so that dot is at TDC. It takes the same amount of time for that line to rotate no matter where on the line!

And you teach??

WOW!!

quote:
Hey lefty,

so it takes more time to cover that area evenly overall.

--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Edited on 12/19/2008 5:18 PM

--------------------
Don't sing it, bring it!!

Somebody should teach you how to get your point across with a little more respect. It's called tact, you don't have any. Rick is a well respected member of the drilling community and yes, he does teach.

You will sand more off holding the pad/paper at the top of the ball than you will down by the equator. At the top, the pad can be touching more of the ball per revolution.

I kept the pad moving and use lots of water, seems to make the abralon work better and last longer. Never held the pad in one place very long, and only about 15-20 seconds on any half of the ball before turning. Of course this is with reactive balls, urethane balls were another topic.

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mrbowlingnut · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2008, 10:35:21 PM »

Buy a CAB and start at largest diameter and go upwards usually low speed with water on the pad and the ball. The CAB will allow consistent pressure and the feel will come to you within a few balls, do not worry about it almost impossible to F up a ball.

Yes at the smallest diameter it cuts faster but you will see it unless you are blind, which I am sure you are not J/K

Do not throw away old pads they just become finer and finer as they wear out, the 1k,2k and 4k will be the best to use more often the low grits are pretty worthless and can screw up a ball if you really tried hard enough.

Sometimes a 500 pad and gritless polish are a great option when nothing else seems to read the lane correctly in my experience otherwise below 1k is never used.

I also highly recommend every color of scotchbrite pads, the White pad is perfect for slightly hazing the polish off a ball but not all the way.

With a CAB you also buy little sanding discs that attach they give a totally different look than abralon more smooth overall.

J_w73 · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2008, 11:20:09 AM »

quote:

Okay Guido, good point but you're forgetting one more variable/factor that comes into play...."surface area".

Surface area of a sphere is calculated with this formula..4piR(squared) with R being the radius. As we extend outward from center (top of the ball) we're extending the radius which then increases the surface area geometrically.

With all things being equal, speed of the spinner is constant, assuming pressure and area covered by our hand is the same, it would physically take less time to cover the surface area with a shorter radius compared to an area with a longer radius. Hope this helps some....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Actually farther away from the axis is moving at a faster speed. You are right that there is more surface area at the side of the ball(longer distance) but it has to move at a faster speed. Do the dot test that is mentioned.. two dots in line, a dot 1 inch from the top center and a dot at the side of the ball... the two dots will make the revolution in the same amount of time. Since the one on the side has to cover more ground then it has to be going at a faster speed...

tenpinspro · « **Reply #8 on:** December 23, 2008, 05:51:44 AM »

quote:
quote:

Okay Guido, good point but you're forgetting one more variable/factor that comes into play...."surface area".

Surface area of a sphere is calculated with this formula..4piR(squared) with R being the radius. As we extend outward from center (top of the ball) we're extending the radius which then increases the surface area geometrically.

With all things being equal, speed of the spinner is constant, assuming pressure and area covered by our hand is the same, it would physically take less time to cover the surface area with a shorter radius compared to an area with a longer radius. Hope this helps some....
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

Actually farther away from the axis is moving at a faster speed. You are right that there is more surface area at the side of the ball(longer distance) but it has to move at a faster speed. Do the dot test that is mentioned.. two dots in line, a dot 1 inch from the top center and a dot at the side of the ball... the two dots will make the revolution in the same amount of time. Since the one on the side has to cover more ground then it has to be going at a faster speed...

Yes I agree J. Sorry, didn't mean equal in "speed" but rather why I stated that the "speed of the spinner is constant" meaning whether the spinner produces (hypothetically) 500 rpms as you sand a ball vs 1000 rpms and sand the ball, the smaller surface area will still be covered faster.

Thanks Mike/Jody,

When I'm not sure of something, I'll ask Mike or JohnP as well cause Precision and KOTM's words go over my head right after "Hi Rick"...lol
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 23, 2008, 08:42:02 AM »

quote:

Yes I agree J. Sorry, didn't mean equal in "speed" but rather why I stated that the "speed of the spinner is constant" meaning whether the spinner produces (hypothetically) 500 rpms as you sand a ball vs 1000 rpms and sand the ball, the smaller surface area will still be covered faster.

Thanks Mike/Jody,

When I'm not sure of something, I'll ask Mike or JohnP as well cause Precision and KOTM's words go over my head right after "Hi Rick"...lol
--------------------
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion

I think I get what you are saying now.. being that the top is a smaller surface the pad covers all of it.. and you are sanding the whole surface(all directions) as it spins as opposed to just the spot where the abralon is hitting the ball on the side..
I also think it is easier to subconsciously put more pressure on the top as well.. that may have something to do with it.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #10 on:** December 23, 2008, 08:46:37 AM »

quote:

You will sand more off holding the pad/paper at the top of the ball than you will down by the equator. At the top, the pad can be touching more of the ball per revolution.

Not necessarily - the ball's speed at the equator is much higher than on top, so abrasive forces are bigger (?). Overall I think it evens out, so I try to sand every area of a ball evenly.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling?
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leftyinsnellville · « **Reply #11 on:** December 23, 2008, 08:58:50 AM »

I picked up a used Ebonite SR300 that looked like someone sanded it with broken glass. It had a zillion scratches all over that were obviously done by hand sanding (uneven, swirling, and of varying sizes and depth). I used the 180 Abralon on four sides, then moved up to the 360 on two sides, then 500 on six sides, 1000 on six sides, 2000 on six sides, and Valentino's snake oil to finish. Although it looks brand new, I'm concerned because some of you mentioned using below 500 grit is not a good idea. Did I screw up this ball?

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220...221...whatever it takes.

azguy · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2008, 09:19:54 AM »

Most will not use below 500 unless a total resurface is needed. If you tried to 'fix' that ball, as you described, it would take you a LOT of 500's or 1000's to get the cover smooth.

When I do plug work or a total resurface, I start with 180 A pad or 220 sandpaper. Just keep in mind, not to heavy on the pressure. IMO, it all depends on the starting condition of the ball. Some resurfacing/changes can be done with little pressure, some can't.

Last year I saw a Storm Golf ball that had been dropped in the parking lot, hit by a car tire and rolled half way across the lot. That poor thing took a lot and long time to fix.

Point is, depends on starting condition and where one wants to end up, as to what grit to use.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net

Xcessive_Evil · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2008, 08:06:27 AM »

Sorry for the stupid question, but does it matter which way you sit the ball on the spinner?
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Does it really matter?

azguy · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2008, 08:18:52 AM »

No question is stupid, we all have asked things, only way to learn is to ask.

No, not at all. Only thing is to remember which way you start, and which way you want to end up. If you want a bit more length, you want to end up with the 'sanding lines' going with your track. If you want a bit more 'hook', then you want to end up going against your track.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net

Author Topic: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball? (Read 8893 times)

leftyinsnellville

Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball?

Berreez

Re: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball?

tenpinspro

Re: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball?

charlest

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tenpinspro

Re: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball?

Mike Austin

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mrbowlingnut

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J_w73

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tenpinspro

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J_w73

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dizzyfugu

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leftyinsnellville

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azguy

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Xcessive_Evil

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azguy

Re: Abralon pads - how long to keep on the ball?