Author Topic: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers (Read 4706 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** November 18, 2009, 05:28:56 AM »

I see some people saying their dull oiler balls hook too much on dryer lanes. I find that my dull oilers just burn up and hook less or not at all when the lanes are dry. I am wondering why the difference.. Are the lanes just too dry for me?.. Is the ball too dull? Too much speed??
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #1 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:30:35 PM »

Axis rotation and axis tilt play a huge part in this equation.

cheech · « **Reply #2 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:38:59 PM »

or if there is head oil it still can conserve enough energy until it gets to its BP. or you are just getting it to the dry too fast or fasterthan other people
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HS:792(SR300)
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J_w73 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 18, 2009, 01:48:09 PM »

quote:
Axis rotation and axis tilt play a huge part in this equation.

I do have little axis tilt.. my track circumference is rather large.. I'm thinking this would cause the ball to burn up quicker..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Juggernaut · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2009, 10:14:24 AM »

Or you don't provide enough rotational energy with your release to make the ball continue to hook after it comes into the dry.

Many times friction, whether due to dry lanes OR aggressive coverstocks, overcomes the energy supplied by the bowler. When this happens the HOOK stops and the ball dies (rolls out).

In general, people who say their oiler hooks too much on dry lanes have enough rotational energy to overcome the friction while those whose ball "burns up" do not.
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J_w73 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2009, 12:51:10 PM »

quote:
Or you don't provide enough rotational energy with your release to make the ball continue to hook after it comes into the dry.

Many times friction, whether due to dry lanes OR aggressive coverstocks, overcomes the energy supplied by the bowler. When this happens the HOOK stops and the ball dies (rolls out).

In general, people who say their oiler hooks too much on dry lanes have enough rotational energy to overcome the friction while those whose ball "burns up" do not.
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understood, but is there a medium rev spot that makes this happen.. cause I see people with hardly any revs on burnt burnt lanes and their ball seems to get down the lane without rolling out... but my urethane or lightest oil ball is hitting the lane and straightening out immediately..

this is on a truly burnt lane that is different that the original question.
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Juggernaut · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2009, 01:47:00 PM »

quote:

understood, but is there a medium rev spot that makes this happen.. cause I see people with hardly any revs on burnt burnt lanes and their ball seems to get down the lane without rolling out... but my urethane or lightest oil ball is hitting the lane and straightening out immediately..

this is on a truly burnt lane that is different that the original question.

Well, I did simplify my original reply, but it goes much deeper if you delve into it.

Without having to write a book on the subject, it would be hard to explain the physics of it, but you have to take into consideration some factors:

1. COF of the ball itself
2. Volume and viscosity of the lane conditioner
3. Rev rate of said bowler (release strength)
4. Axis tilt
5. Axis rotation
6. Initial ball speed at release(rev dominant or speed dominant)
7. Strength of drilling

and probably some I am forgetting about in my hurry to help you.

We've all seen it. One guy hooks the ball 20 boards while another guy hooks the same ball 5 boards and throws it through the breakpoint at times. It is due to different combinations of the above mentioned factors.

One guy is probably rev dominant, the other speed dominant. One guy probably rolls the ball pretty strongly, the other not so much.

I have seen, many times, exactly what you're talking about, and it can be frustrating. I'm throwing the mildest ball I've got while another guy on my team is throwing a pretty aggressive piece. I'm playing a swing shot over 20 just to hold the ball on line, while he is throwing up the track and killing stuff. It's all about getting the right ball, with the right drilling, on the right condition for your game. And, with all the variables out there today, it is nothing but a gigantic guessing game.

There is no "medium rev spot" that causes this for all bowlers. It is more a thing of individual match up VS individual mis-match on your personal equipment.
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #7 on:** November 24, 2009, 09:18:08 AM »

quote:
quote:
Axis rotation and axis tilt play a huge part in this equation.

I do have little axis tilt.. my track circumference is rather large.. I''m thinking this would cause the ball to burn up quicker..
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Yup - A problem I also tend to have. Friction is the enemy. With more forward roll you reduce the skid phase. If a ball with good traction encounters friction, roll-out is much more likely than with a lower track and/or more side rotation. Then add a typical low RG core of an oiler, and the ball quickly bleeds any energy it retained through the core...
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Edited on 11/24/2009 10:18 AM

J_w73 · « **Reply #8 on:** November 24, 2009, 11:22:02 AM »

quote:
quote:
quote:
Axis rotation and axis tilt play a huge part in this equation.

I do have little axis tilt.. my track circumference is rather large.. I''m thinking this would cause the ball to burn up quicker..
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Yup - A problem I also tend to have. Friction is the enemy. With more forward roll you reduce the skid phase. If a ball with good traction encounters friction, roll-out is much more likely than with a lower track and/or more side rotation. Then add a typical low RG core of an oiler, and the ball quickly bleeds any energy it retained through the core...
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<font face=''Arial''>DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com''s vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section</font id=''Arial''>

Edited on 11/24/2009 10:18 AM

funny thing is I also have a horrible time trying to get the ball to move when there is any decent oil out there..part of it may be that it is hard from me to slowdown my ball speed and have the same aggressive hand release.. but there might be something else to it.
do you see the same thing.. ?

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** December 17, 2009, 04:51:55 PM »

example.. I''m seeing my 5" pin to pap no mercy whup''n and 1000 abralon leverage drilled sidewinder not moving hardly at all last night.. I don''t really see the ball physically rolling out, going into a complete forward roll. It just seems like the balls wouldn''t be revving at all when they hit the lane off my hand.. like as soon as they hit the lane it took all the revs out of the ball...

but I go to my widow pearl,creature s40, or neptune and the ball has more recovery , backend and movement..
these are all considerably weaker balls than the other two so I''m just guessing there isn''t enough oil in the heads for the whupn and sidewinder...
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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Edited on 12/17/2009 5:59 PM

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #10 on:** December 18, 2009, 06:23:56 AM »

quote:
so I''m just guessing there isn''t enough oil in the heads for the whupn and sidewinder...

Exactly. On the PBA patterns, where the heads usually start to dry out pretty quickly, I'd see this with my Cell. It'd be rolling great the first game, but then it'd start to hook less and less each frame after awhile. It'd start pinging corner pins, then it'd start threatening to miss the pocket. If I moved right, it made it worse. The trick was to move left into fresh head oil and give away the headpin a little more, switch to something pearl that retained energy better, or both.

Author Topic: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers (Read 4706 times)

J_w73

over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

Dan Belcher

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

cheech

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

J_w73

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

Juggernaut

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

J_w73

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

Juggernaut

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

dizzyfugu

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

J_w73

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

J_w73

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers

Dan Belcher

Re: over hooking vs rolling out with dull oilers