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Author Topic: Surface Opinions  (Read 3837 times)

Jay

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Surface Opinions
« on: May 07, 2009, 06:03:01 PM »
Would it be so weird or bad to use surfaces such as 1000 and 500 abralon more often?  On sport patterns specifically, I think the name of the game is breakpoint control.  I think some equipment ends up being too aggressive off the breakpoint for my own good(producing over/under reactions) at 4000 and 2000 Abralon as well as polished surfaces.  In the future, I will try to use layouts to help control this, but you can only do so much that way.

This is probably something I will try next time I bowl on some tougher conditions.  The only thing I'd worry about then is possibly carry, but I don't think that'd be an issue until the heads start to go.  That's when I should use higher grits.  Thoughts?
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2009, 03:09:01 AM »
It is IMO always a thin line between control and carry. Rougher surfaces mellow out the breakpoint, making the hook more arcing and predictable, esp. on longer patterns, flat shots and wet/dry conditions that mess with shiny equipment.
The drawback is that the balls tend to read the lanes earlier, so length and burnout becomes an issue. I am not sure if you can counter this with drilling changes, since the surface factor is huge for ball performance.

Personally, I have been experimenting with surfaces for my game, and since I play rather slow with good revs in a stroker style, I found matte balls to be rather ineffective for me (as well as low RG balls). The ball most matte is a Blue Hammer in my arsenal, which works fine, but anything else is 1.500 grit wet sanded at best - I do not need more! And those sheen high grit and rubbing compound surfaces seem to be a good compromise on many of the modern coverstocks, when a true polish makes things just too jumpy/erratic.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2009, 07:25:22 AM »
I tend to find another problem rears its ugly head when you use too much surface.  Aside from difficulty in getting enough backend angle to carry, you also fight early hook as soon as the heads start to dry up, but then the ball won't recover if you try to move inside of it a little.

You might try taking a 500 or 1000 abralon surface, then polishing it lightly (just polish it by hand instead of doing it on a spinner to avoid burning in the polish and getting a mirror shine).  I've had a lot of success with 1000 abralon plus very light polish personally, and always keep at least one ball in my bag at all times with that surface on it.
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scooter19530

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2009, 08:01:28 AM »
my buddy was having trouble carrying 7 pins,(lefty). he was on his 2nd drill already and thought about redrilling again, (twisted fury). i suggested just for sh!ts and giggles, lets try and hit the oob finish with a green 600 grit scotch-brite pad by hand. he just sat the ball on the pad in his hand and spun it for about 2-3 minutes just to take the shine off. WOW!! what a difference. he carried every 7 pin. bowled in a tournament in st.joe michigan, averaged 258 for 8 games and took 1st place. 1 month later bowled in another tournament and finished in 4th. $1,050 in 2 tournaments. with the oob finish he kept coming in behind the head pin. it changed his whole game. before anyone changes drilling, i would suggest surface 1st. it's alot cheaper, no matter what grit. hey, it might work.
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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2009, 08:18:11 AM »
Dizzy & Dan bring up excellent points. Entry angle and carry percentage are very important.
 
Remember that the more dull the surface, the slower it will be to respond to friction. Perhaps with higher rev rates and heavier oil volumes can help, but all you can do is experiment on those conditions you're trying to match up with. It's really all about managing friction on the lane. Too much, not enough, too early, too late, etc.

Personally, I doubt I could ever get a ball at 500 to hit and carry well, but we're all different, and we all bowl on different conditions. With lots of surface you'll probably need to move your breakpoint inside a bit to compensate for the more tame move you'll see late on the lane.

There are lots of things you can try, but if it were me, I'd try 1000 abralon long before I tried a 500 abralon surface. Good luck.


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JohnP

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2009, 10:14:24 AM »
quote:
Remember that the more dull the surface, the slower it will be to respond to friction.


Don't you have this backwards?  A dull ball breaks earlier.  Or do you mean that it doesn't "jump" as much, is more "arcy"?  --  JohnP
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Juggernaut

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2009, 10:25:26 AM »
quote:
quote:
Remember that the more dull the surface, the slower it will be to respond to friction.


Don't you have this backwards?  A dull ball breaks earlier.  Or do you mean that it doesn't "jump" as much, is more "arcy"?  --  JohnP


 I think what he means is that a dull ball may read the dry earlier, but that its total reaction will be stretched over a longer distance, allowing it to have a smoother reaction, being less "snappy" and more "arcy".

 I like to use duller surfaces on lower flaring balls to achieve very "arcy" reactions. I currently have a 500 abralon finish on my RAZYR and love it when the lanes transition after the first game.
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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2009, 01:37:35 PM »
The dull ball will be less snappy, or less lateral movement.

On edit: Maybe I need to elaborate. The dull ball will recover faster from SKID or oil, but once it finds adequate FRICTION it will be much slower to respond to the same friction as the ball with less surface.

I hope this makes sense.


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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
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Edited on 5/8/2009 1:52 PM

Edited on 5/8/2009 1:52 PM
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2009, 03:24:12 PM »
i may approach this subject differently than some but i feel the amount of oil on the lane will dictate what type of surface on your ball is best needed. i definitely feel that the tougher the lane condition the more important this is. that being said when i bowled pba regionals i very seldom used a highly polished ball. the shark and scorpion patterns are both over 40' and there is considerable carrydown to cope with. the cheetah is "only" 36' in length but has more oil by volume. a ball that's smoothsanded 2,000 or 4,000 abralon will read the pattern better and give you a more even roll. of course if the lanes are dry then polished equipment will be a better option. much of this is common sense.
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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2009, 03:48:42 PM »
I agree, Greg, that on longer/heavier patterns 2000 works well for me on the solid reactives and the pearls. Too much shine and the ball never quits skidding, and if it does it's hard to predict.

Like I said before, sometimes a higher rev rate can get the dull finish to respond, but for us mere mortals there is a delicate balance between surface and carry.


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www.brunswickbowling.com

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Jay

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2009, 05:10:32 PM »
I agree that there's a balance between surface and carry.  I have a decent amount of axis rotation, I would say close to 60 degrees.  This is probably why my best look in a lot of situations is moving in and staying a little closer to the pocket.  Unless I change my release a little to about 35-45 degrees, more surface is probably my best bet.  But I'm sure if I go that route I need to be able to play straighter to maintain carry.

I've tried less rotation like that on the PBA patterns though and it really doesn't improve my look much unless I play around the 5 board will very little rotation.  It's almost like there's no middle ground.
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mastergunner

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Re: Surface Opinions
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2009, 12:51:50 PM »
What would happen to lets say taking a Total NV to 2000 no polish on a medium condition? Would it burn up and go straight if you were trying to seing it?
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