Author Topic: Clean N Dull (Read 3831 times)

J_w73 · « **on:** April 15, 2010, 08:12:10 AM »

I won't argue the cleaning ability of Clean N Dull. I am a little worried about the dull part. After using it I notice that it does leave the ball duller. What is going on here? Is it just taking the "oil shine" out of the ball and therefore looking duller or does it actually "change" the coverstock?
I could understand it taking waxes or other surface modifiers off the surface but I only use abralon and non-wax polishes.

I just don't want the product to alter the surface.
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** April 15, 2010, 04:39:16 PM »

As far as I know and have experiencedd with using it, as long as you don't "apply" it with something abrasive, it will not change the surface of the ball. Remember polish is not a coating like wax, polyurethane or paint. It needs an abrasive to remove it. There is no abrasive in Clean and Dull as far as I know.

A ball can get "shined" by continuous use on oil. This false shine or polish is properly removed by Clean and Dull and several other good deep cleaners like Neo-Tac's Hook-It and Lanemasters ball cleaner.

Remember that even polished balls can get "additional" but false shines from continued use on oil, when it is not removed by such good cleaners as the above. We can used to the ball's reaction and minor ball reaction reductions over time, so we may not see it.

As a side note, I am not aware of any polishes that might put a true coating on a ball that could be removed by such cleaners. As far as I am aware, the name, Clean and Dull, is misnomer and does not dull any ball or change the surface. As I said, as far as I am aware. Also, I do not know if Powerhouse/Ebonite might have changed the formula since they took it over from Track. I am still using the Track or APP formulation.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 15, 2010, 05:27:10 PM »

Thanks Charlest.. This post was kind of directed at you cause I know you use Clean N Dull and have probably tested it more thoroughly than anyone on here.

I am in the same boat as you as to what a "polish" is and isn't.. I try to convey the "truth" to all people that think polish is a "coating"

As far as polishes that might leave a residue that could be taken off with a cleaner... I was referring to products like "control it" or "delay reaction". I beleive both of these contain slip additives that could possibly be removed by a cleaner. I do not know this for a fact but I have used the finest pure polishing compound that I could find and still couldn't get the friction to be reduced as much as control it reduced it.

I also have the track product..

As a side note.. You are aware they took "clean N dull" off the "allowed to be used during competition" list on the Bowl.com site. I talked to the person in charge of this and she said from her tests it did enough to the surface to warant the decision. I would love to have more info as to how they came to the decision. I wonder if it was because it appears to dull the ball like I was asking about when in actuality it is just cleaning really well?
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** April 15, 2010, 06:54:35 PM »

Yes, I am aware they removed the Powerhouse C&D from the "allowed any time" usage list. I can't really say what the USBC saw or didn't see. Sometimes they do a lot of real good and other times you have to wonder who's thinking what.

As far as removing the slip agent from those 2 "polishes" (they're more than polishes. That's why I put that in quotes.), I take the manufacturers' word that they need a certain level of abrasive to remove it. The slip agent is a chemical that block the pores from absorbing oil. The one in Valentino's UFO is the one I have come to use more often than the other two because it takes less to remove and it works as well and is applied more easily. (They use an organic version of the slip agent. Not sure how it works, but it is easier to remove.)

I am fairly certain that Clean and Dull does not dissolve this slip agent, but, to be honest, I have not tested it to see if it does. That could be interesting to test. I just treated a ball. I'll make myself a note to try that if the slip agent coating doesn't do what I need for this ball.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

J_w73 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 15, 2010, 11:25:09 PM »

quote:
Yes, I am aware they removed the Powerhouse C&D from the "allowed any time" usage list. I can't really say what the USBC saw or didn't see. Sometimes they do a lot of real good and other times you have to wonder who's thinking what.

As far as removing the slip agent from those 2 "polishes" (they're more than polishes. That's why I put that in quotes.), I take the manufacturers' word that they need a certain level of abrasive to remove it. The slip agent is a chemical that block the pores from absorbing oil. The one in Valentino's UFO is the one I have come to use more often than the other two because it takes less to remove and it works as well and is applied more easily. (They use an organic version of the slip agent. Not sure how it works, but it is easier to remove.)

I am fairly certain that Clean and Dull does not dissolve this slip agent, but, to be honest, I have not tested it to see if it does. That could be interesting to test. I just treated a ball. I'll make myself a note to try that if the slip agent coating doesn't do what I need for this ball.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I'll check out the UFO.. so the UFO weakens the ball and diminishes the overall hook or does it make it clear the heads and stronger on the back like the snake oil or secret sauce is supposed to do?
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18 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, 15 deg axis tilt, varied rotational axis deg.. usually 45+
HighGame 300 x 4, High Series 808
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience 185

charlest · « **Reply #5 on:** April 16, 2010, 12:00:01 AM »

UFO is a polish and it has a slip agent, just like Control-IT and Delayed Reaction. So it goes longer from the polishing AND from the slip agent. It also reduces the overall hook and the backend, just like the other two.

I find it much easier to apply and remove than the other two.

Snake Oil is very different from Secret Sauce. SO seems to change the underlying grit the least of any polish I have used. Most of the time, I see no changes in the sanding lines. SS is a very good polish but it most definitely has abrasive in it. It changes the underlying grit level.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 4/16/2010 0:00 AM

JohnP · « **Reply #6 on:** April 16, 2010, 10:55:18 AM »

quote:
Also, I do not know if Powerhouse/Ebonite might have changed the formula since they took it over from Track.

I took the two day layout class Ebonite offers soon after they bought the Columbia brands. Jeff Ussery , who taught the course, at the time was the Powerhouse brand manager (he is now the Hammer brand manager). He told us they were buying the exact same Clean and Dull from the company that actually makes it (he didn't say what company that is), the only thing changed was the label on the bottle. -- JohnP

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** April 16, 2010, 11:40:59 AM »

Thanks, John. That's good to know. It's still a great and amazing and extremely useful product.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Author Topic: Clean N Dull (Read 3831 times)

J_w73

Clean N Dull

charlest

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