Author Topic: How important is the sanding grit before the polish? (Read 5808 times)

DanH78 · « **on:** March 12, 2006, 10:35:41 AM »

Let's say you take the same ball, first time you sand it to 400, then polish to 2000, then you take that same ball, sand it to 1500, then polish to 2000. Would there be a noticeable difference in reaction? (Feel free to substitute my numbers if there is a combination that would make a difference)
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

htotheizzo3561 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 12, 2006, 06:39:16 PM »

There is a difference at any grit, but u must be consistent enough to notice the difference.
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Yo Yo Yo Mo Fo

charlest · « **Reply #2 on:** March 12, 2006, 07:29:24 PM »

quote:
Let's say you take the same ball, first time you sand it to 400, then polish to 2000, then you take that same ball, sand it to 1500, then polish to 2000. Would there be a noticeable difference in reaction? (Feel free to substitute my numbers if there is a combination that would make a difference)
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

If you've polished a ball to 2000 grit, then it's at 2000 grit polished, no matter how you arrived there. My questions to you are
1. how did you arrive there and
2. how do you know it's 2000 grit?

(Upon review, I am not trying to be a smart alec below; this is really the situation, as far as I know.)
From what I have learned, there is no magic polish that I know of that will automatically get you to 2000 grit; even Columbia's 2000 grit Degree polish will not do that.

YOU have to apply to the right amount with the right pressure for the right amount of time and you have to have some way to measure the finish when you get there, if you want to be sure you are precisely at 2000 grit.

Details:
The grit on a 600 grit sandpaper will become finer and finer as pressure you apply breaks the pieces of abrasive on the sandpaper. So, 600 grit becomes 800 grit, 1000 grit, maybe as fine as 1200 grit as you keep using it. This is why you have to keep checking the sandpaper as you sand a ball. The same thing happens to the grit in a polish that contains grit, like Storm'stra SHine and Ebonite Factory Finish polish, both excellent polishes.

(Brunswick's High Gloss polish is a gritless polish. So, theoretically, if you sanded a ball to 2000 grit, using an Abralon pad, for instance, and then applied this polish, that could be "a 2000 grit polished ball". Any other polish with grit in it cannot be treated this way nor could the final coat be assume to be 2000 grit.)
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

Edited on 3/13/2006 7:30 AM

DanH78 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:11:15 PM »

Uh, Charlest, you lost me. The way I "know" it's 2000, is that's what it says on the bottle.

So are you saying that it doesn't matter what you polish the ball with, it's the underlying grit that makes the determination?
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

tjj300 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 12, 2006, 08:49:48 PM »

Charlest, I think that's a moot point. If the same person is doing the polishing and is consistant, than the comparison is legitimate between balls.

Tom · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:07:16 PM »

What charlest was conveying is that polishes that contain a grit compound, be it 600, 1200, 1500, 2000 whatever, will be directly effected by how long the compound was shaken or mixed, relative temperature of compound prior to application, length of time and pressure applied when polishing, any dilution caused by applicator or sponge being wet. Bottom line is all sorts of variables start to creep into the process and can cause problems in recreating the same surface texture on consistent bases.

Charlest went on to state that if you sand your ball to whatever ball surface is desired, be it with wet and dry sandpaper, Abralon, Platin, or any consistently measurable abrasive system, then apply a non grit polish. Using this process you will achieve a consistent and easily repeatable ball surface.

I gave up on grit polishes a long time ago because of the inconsistencies in trying to recreate or consistently match the exact surface of the last application. At best grit compounds are a hit or miss proposition.

DanH78 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:10:29 PM »

quote:
What charlest was conveying is that polishes that contain a grit compound, be it 600, 1200, 1500, 2000 whatever, will be directly effected by how long the compound was shaken or mixed, relative temperature of compound prior to application, length of time and pressure applied when polishing, any dilution caused by applicator or sponge being wet. Bottom line is all sorts of variables start to creep into the process and can cause problems in recreating the same surface texture on consistent bases.

Charlest went on to state that if you sand your ball to whatever ball surface is desired, be it with wet and dry sandpaper, Abralon, Platin, or any consistently measurable abrasive system, then apply a non grit polish. Using this process you will achieve a consistent and easily repeatable ball surface.

I gave up on grit polishes a long time ago because of the inconsistencies in trying to recreate or consistently match the exact surface of the last application. At best grit compounds are a hit or miss proposition.

hmmmm, interesting. That's kind of what I thought CHarlest was saying, but it's clearer now.
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

shelley · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2006, 09:15:14 PM »

quote:
So are you saying that it doesn't matter what you polish the ball with, it's the underlying grit that makes the determination?

Just as with sandpaper, the gritty parts of grit-polishes break down and wear. The longer you use a piece of sandpaper, the smoother it gets, it loses its roughness as the particles that make up the surface break down into smaller and smaller particles.

The same principle applies to grit-based polishes. Under heat, pressure, and contact with the ball surface, those particles break down into smaller and smaller particles. The longer you apply a 1500-grit polish, the higher the final grit.

Following the manufacturer's guidelines should result in not too much breakdown and you should end up pretty close to the specified grit finish.

SH

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:22:40 AM »

quote:
Uh, Charlest, you lost me. The way I "know" it's 2000, is that's what it says on the bottle.

So are you saying that it doesn't matter what you polish the ball with, it's the underlying grit that makes the determination?
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

That's exactly what I meant: just because it says 2000 grit does not mean you will get 2000 grit results every time. Where did I lose you?

Upon reading other's comments, I see you got the point. Sorry if I was not clear the first time. I've re-edited my original reply to try to add some clarity.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

Edited on 3/13/2006 7:30 AM

charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2006, 07:23:21 AM »

quote:
Charlest, I think that's a moot point. If the same person is doing the polishing and is consistant, than the comparison is legitimate between balls.

While you can get similar results, it may or may not be 2000 grit.
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"...for advice is a dangerous gift, even from the wise to the wise...."
J. R. R. Tolkien

DanH78 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:12:52 AM »

quote:
Where did I lose you?

It was the whole microscopic refractory device (or whatever you called it).

I'm just starting to put a little more thought and effort into coverstock prep. In the past I've either kept things box finish or used scotchbrite by hand to keep things dull. So I'm trying to learn a little more.

Thanks for the replys
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

scotts33 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2006, 08:47:56 AM »

I'll add to this discussion as I find that if I want a ball to skat a bit more thru the heads on a worn track area but still want some pop on the backed. What I will do is wet sand with 400 or 600 across the track leaving sanding marks that are noticebale to the eye. Then, apply a small amount of either Storm Xtra Shine or Legends Polish over the ball and bring it what I term around 1500-2000 polished. The amount of polish you use and the amount of pressure determines your finished look. I feel the ridges and valleys of a wet sand w/polish vs.. the smooth of say abralon or a grit compound like Storm Step #2 may owrk better in certain situations but NOT all.

I find this to work well on heads that are going with some carry down. I use it on stronger laid out balls that I am having problems getting thru the heads. Works well for me. YMMV.
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Scott

charlest · « **Reply #12 on:** March 13, 2006, 09:29:27 AM »

quote:
quote:
Where did I lose you?

It was the whole microscopic refractory device (or whatever you called it).

Thanks for the replys
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What are you gonna do? Beat me with your Jesus stick?

Yeah. I kinda went off the deep end with that one. It's just a device for measuring light. Probably should have said, "reflectometer", as refraction is different from reflection. The idea was you need a device to measure how much shine you put on the ball, but seeing how much is reflected off the surface.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
(That includes me too, at times!

)

Author Topic: How important is the sanding grit before the polish? (Read 5808 times)

DanH78

How important is the sanding grit before the polish?

htotheizzo3561

Re: How important is the sanding grit before the polish?

charlest

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DanH78

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tjj300

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Tom

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DanH78

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shelley

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charlest

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charlest

Re: How important is the sanding grit before the polish?

DanH78

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scotts33

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charlest

Re: How important is the sanding grit before the polish?