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Author Topic: Particle load vs particle size  (Read 5938 times)

Ragnar

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Particle load vs particle size
« on: July 25, 2005, 07:11:36 AM »
Does it make a difference?  That is, which has the larger effect, load or size?
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clintdaley

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2005, 03:21:01 PM »
I have never asked...what a great question. I would think the larger particles would have more of an effect in lesser amounts of load %, while the smaller particles would need a larger load % to make a bigger difference. I think the load and type are of equal importance.

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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2005, 04:31:12 PM »
It had been my impression that a light load allowed the ball to retain power, heavier loads would hook a bit faster in the heavier oil. A lighter load would create more an even hook, all depending on the ball and drill, but that was the basic. If I am wrong, I'd love to know, myself.

After reading the question, I was questioning my own knowledge....shoot...I'm not sure ant more...?
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shelley

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2005, 05:09:40 PM »
quote:
It had been my impression that a light load allowed the ball to retain power, heavier loads would hook a bit faster in the heavier oil. A lighter load would create more an even hook, all depending on the ball and drill, but that was the basic. If I am wrong, I'd love to know, myself.

After reading the question, I was questioning my own knowledge....shoot...I'm not sure ant more...?


I think you're right about the load question.  Lighter loads tend to react much like dull solid reactives, heavier loads have an earlier, more arcing reaction.

But what about size?  How would a medium-sized particle compare to a very small particle or a very large particle (at the same relative loading)?  I think that at a certain load (say, X particles per unit), the larger particle would produce a more even reaction like a heavy-load ball.  Smaller particles would have smaller surface area, making the reaction more like a light-load cover.

But that doesn't take into account the relative hardness of the particles or their solidity.  Someone posted links to the Columbia website that talked about hollow versus solid particles (thought that's not what I think of when I think "solid particle"; I think "solid particle" in contrast to "particle pearl" just like "solid reactive" versus "pearl reactive").

Several of the descriptions for Columbia balls mention larger, smaller, softer, harder, hollow, or solid particles.  Those attributes could be combined in lots of different ways to produce lots of different kinds of reactions.

This is turning out to be a real science.  There's a lot to explore here.  I hope it's not "classified" and we get some good info from a manufacturer.

SH
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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2005, 05:13:57 PM »
LOL..I guess this is one of those posts, that just show a person ( myself) , I didn't know as much about it, as I thought I did.

A humbling topic.

BTW...when would a person know...percent of load, type of particle, and, as stated in another post, that the company added particles and never said anything in the ball description....then when would we know ?
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Edited on 7/25/2005 5:09 PM
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taige690

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2005, 07:54:45 PM »
personally I think load over size, due to breakdown of the particles.
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shelley

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2005, 08:12:01 PM »
quote:

BTW...when would a person know...percent of load, type of particle, and, as stated in another post, that the company added particles and never said anything in the ball description....then when would we know ?


I don't think there's really anyway to know without putting it under a microscope, and even then, who are we to really know what we're supposed to see anyway?

The Messenger Ti Traction is what started this, and I've heard it described as having a very particle-like reaction for a resin ball.  One of my teammates has one and it doesn't jump off the dry like most reactives (of course, it's not polished either).  Some of the other new-generation resin balls like the UI and Bully are said to have very particle like reactions even though they're simply strong resins.  I think a big part of it is that they're sanded with fairly high grits, at least the Traction and the Bully are.  It gives some length like polish but not quite as jumpy.  Combined with the appropriate cores, I can understand how the reaction is so smooth.

SH
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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2005, 08:20:08 PM »
ya know, I thought it was time to " ask the expert", so I sent off emails to a couple companies, hope to have answers in a couple days.
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C-G ProShop-Carl

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2005, 08:48:51 PM »
I can give you a perfect example of where the size of the particle matters where load really doesn't.

The Track Animal is a med/light load particle coverstock, but the Mega Fang particle coverstock has the largest particles every produced by BASF. I would think that most would agree that the Animal was definately an oil ball, and suprisingly it had very good reaction further down the lane as well.....which is where I think you see the med/light load particle come into play.

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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2005, 09:17:05 PM »
Using that ball as an example, then you'd say it's size that matters ? more than load ?

I might agree, but, if I remember right, that as with most balls, don't really say what/amount/percentage of load they have. (for the common folk), so understanding that, how would a person truely know what/which ball would best fit them or the conditions they see most often ?

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DON DRAPER

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2005, 09:34:00 PM »
an interesting topic to say the least....i never gave any thought to it. every time i asked tom tomaras at brunswick about particle balls it was always about the load as opposed to the size of the particle.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2005, 08:53:07 AM »
The type of particle is important for ball recation and setup. I experienced this through a used X-Factor Re-Loaded. I got the ball polished after plugging, to tweak the surface for local demnds. Even with polish the ball had a very tacky surface, I expected much. Some kind of skid/snap reaction. But, on the first test on a rather short medium oil pattern, the ball slipped almost like a polyester. I was shocked! I could not make it move for more than 2-4 boards. Other equipment I had with me worked "normally", crossing half of the lane to the pocket.

When I sanded the ball to 1.000 grit, the surface worked. I guess these are soft particles which flatten out and increase contact area on the lane. Polish will kill their effectiveness. Very different from carbide type particles (e. g. Brunswick, in fact: tiny glass shreds) which create a spiky surface and let the ball grip even in heavy oil and make it hook at your feet.

It would be nice if manufacturers could make clearer statements on the particle type or technology used in the coverstcoks. It would make it easier to predict ball recation and surface preps.
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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2005, 06:07:57 PM »
This is the answer I got from Storm's Tech guys....


The load or percent of particle will effect the balls reaction much greater than the size. The size determines how big of footprint you have in the oil, but the load determines how many feet you have in the oil. Thanks for the email and I hope this is of help.

Ernest Goedicke
Storm Technical Department
Storm Products Inc.

I thought this was right, but after thinking about it, I really wasn't as sure as I thought I was....
A really great question...Thanks

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azguy

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2005, 12:19:39 PM »
and Today, this answer came....... from Ebonite


We use percent of total ball weight to determain how much particle we put in a ball.  The range can be from .5% to 25%.

 Ronald Hickland

Ebonite Ball Design



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shelley

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Re: Particle load vs particle size
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2005, 12:29:06 PM »
quote:
and Today, this answer came....... from Ebonite
We use percent of total ball weight to determain how much particle we put in a ball.  The range can be from .5% to 25%.


So a ball might have 4lb of particles?  4 POUNDS?  Holy moly.  I'm surprised the coverstock material weighs 4 pounds.

SH
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