Author Topic: Restoring the Out of Box Condition. (Read 2747 times)

dR3w · « **on:** July 27, 2005, 06:01:26 AM »

Hello all,

I have a ball spinner at home and a bevy of refinishing products, including wet sand paper, abralon, scotch brite, and various polishes from many manufacturers.

My problem is that despite my best efforts I rarely can get a ball to react with the out of box finish when trying to restore "said" finish by the manufacturers instructions.

For instance, we have two houses in town ... one is med-dry, and one is med-oily. During the summer I am bowling at the med-oily house. I have in the past used my MoRich Ravage there. Now to use that ball in that house, I can't really swing it, but basically play from 10 at the arrows to 8 at the break point, and I get a flush hit. OK, I used the ball maybe 15-20 games ever. One week I write to MoRich and ask for some OOB finish instructions, and they tell me, wet-sand the ball to 800 grit, and use the brunswick high gloss polish after. I do as they say, take the ball to the same house, with the same shot, and the ball does very little. It squirts right through the back end maybe breaking 3 or 4 boards and never getting into a roll, unlike the 8 or so boards of backend that I was covering before.

Now this has been a recurring problem when I apply polish to any ball. I have ebonite factory finish, Brunswick High gloss and Storm React-shine. All these products that in general are intended to return a ball (typically a pearl ball) to factory finish with a wet sanding first. All these products seem to produce a lot more length than the original finish, and very little back end.

What am I doing wrong? I mean if that is how the ball reacted out of the box, then I think I would have noticed that before. It is most definitely a different reaction, then the OOB reaction.

What does wet-sanding the ball before applying the polish do to the final finish? Isn't polishing the ball essentially going to smooth out that finish anyway? Should I try to use a lesser grit wet sandpaper to start with, like 500 or 320 grit abralon before polishing?

This whole area seems to leave me frustrated.

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks,
--------------------
dR3w

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be. "

charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:19:15 PM »

There are 2 potential problems, depending on how well you have learned to use the spinner with polish and sandpaper.

1. With sandpaper or any abrasive, you must use light to medium-light pressure for a minimum amount of time. The abrasive particle attached to the paper wear away and get finer (higher grit numebr). If you press too hard or press lightly but continue to use the same piece of paper, that 800 grit will quickly become 1500 grit or 2000 grit. Better to keep feeling the paper as you use it to make sure it feels like an unused piece of 800 grit (or any grit that you are using). It is better to throw away a piece of sandpaper that is not used up than it is to keep using a pice that is now much finer than you need/want.

2. The same is true for polishes.If you press too hard or for too long a period of time or you use too much, you will get a much higher gloss as a finish. Again don't press too hard. It's like cooking a steak on a grill: you can always cook it more but you can't UN-cook it. (If you realize you've gone too far with the polish, you can always sand it over and start to polish again). This is true even for polishes with no grit in them, like Brunswick's High Gloss polish.

So, you may have a 2000 grit finish on that Ravage with a high gloss polish; in which case it's good for light oil, not medium or heavier.

This is one set of possibilities, off the top of my head.

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

dR3w · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:27:55 PM »

Thanks Charlest,

I really don't think that the overuse of sandpaper applies in this situation. I rarely keep it on the spinner for very long while sanding, although I guess that that is a subjective opinion. And with scoth brite, I don't think that oversanding can apply ... what do you think? Abralon is another story, but I generally wash the pads as I use them.

I think that maybe I am using too much polish for too long. I will try and go with less for a shorter period of time, and see what happens.

Another question ... a while ago I bought some ebonite polish that had varying grades of grit, 500, 800, 1200, 1500, 3000, etc ... Do you think that the same overapplication problems apply with these types of grit oriented polishes? Meaning can using too much 500 grit polish for too long a time, cause it to finish up to 1000+?

dR3w
--------------------
dR3w

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be. "

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:46:13 PM »

quote:
Thanks Charlest,

I really don't think that the overuse of sandpaper applies in this situation. I rarely keep it on the spinner for very long while sanding, although I guess that that is a subjective opinion. And with scoth brite, I don't think that oversanding can apply ... what do you think? Abralon is another story, but I generally wash the pads as I use them.

Nylon pads (Scotch Brite) last longer than sandpaper; I like them a lot, but find hte range limited: 320 (maroon), 600 (green), 800 (light grey) and 1000 grit (blue). You have to watch them also.

I can't advise about Abralon because I have just started using them. They are supposed to last longer than Scotch Brite.

quote:

I think that maybe I am using too much polish for too long. I will try and go with less for a shorter period of time, and see what happens.

Another question ... a while ago I bought some ebonite polish that had varying grades of grit, 500, 800, 1200, 1500, 3000, etc ... Do you think that the same overapplication problems apply with these types of grit oriented polishes? Meaning can using too much 500 grit polish for too long a time, cause it to finish up to 1000+?

Yes, because I have seen/heard about it with the Storm Step polishes. The grits in the liquid can break down with pressure and time.

It's best to experiment with these and try the balls in practice (or in league if you feel daring). Less is more in almost every situation. With time, you'll be able to eye-ball the degree of polish and the amount of time and effort it takes to do certain tasks to certain balls.

SOme hints:
- use dampened CLEAN cloths or sponges (wring them out but leave them just barely damp) to apply polishes. Like keeping silicon carbide sandpaper and Scotch-Brite nylon pads wet, this will help apply the polish and keep form getting too glossy too quickly.
- Try to always use clean cloths when buffing the polish off also.
- get a large pack of cheap cotton face-cloths from places like COSTCO, Wal-Mart or BJ's. I bought 36 or so for $10; I use them; stack them in the corner and when I have 15 or 20 dirty ones, I throw them in the clothes washer and reuse them.
- try using supermarket sponges (3"x5") to apply polish. packs of them are cheap; they can be washed (don't put them in the drier, though). They conform to your hand when wet.

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

Re-Evolution · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2005, 02:51:19 PM »

When you are using abrasives how many steps do you take and what are their direction?
Example:
Step 1 - holes up
Step 2 - holes down (rotated 180Â°)
Step 3 - ring finger up (rotated 90Â°)
Step 4 - ring finger down (rotated 180Â°)

When you polish do you polish parralel or perpendicular to your final abrasive step?

There are things you can do to get fine adjustments by changing the direction of you final abrasive step and the direction of the polish in relation to your final abrasive step.

Increased lenght - sand parallel to your track
Decreased lenght - sand perpendicular to your track
Increased over all hook while the ball is flaring which will enhance the drilling. Find where the flare bowtie is on the ball and place it up in the spinner spin and then rotate 180Â° so the bowtie on the opposite side in now up. This is always my final step with abrasives but that is just my preference.

If you polish perpindicular to your final abrasive step you remove the underlying scratches faster due to hiting them at a 90Â° angle, polishing parralel to the final step will help keep the underlying scatches there a bit longer. I generally polish parralel to my final abrasive step.

Any questions don't hesitate to message me.
--------------------
STORM TRACK

www.Bowling-Info.com

BR.com's unofficial FAQ section

Edited on 7/27/2005 2:46 PM

dR3w · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2005, 03:07:21 PM »

Typically I sand and polish in the same direction and in two separate steps.

I basically align the track with the cup of the spinner (Thumb and fingers just above the edge of the spinner), and sand one side, and turn over and sand the other. Next I do the same with the polish in two steps, one application for each side

I always keep the sand paper wet, but have not tried keeping the polish rag (sponge) damp. I will give that a try as well.

I can try some of the other "directional" techniques that you were explaining. I have read about them before, but haven't tried them yet. I will give them a shot.

This all started with me having the desire to fine tune my ball reaction. So far no luck.

I bought a V2 Power, and using it with the OOB finish was getting me a very early reaction, and some roll out. I went to 1000 with abralon and it was better, but still too early. I went to 800 and polish, and lost all reaction. Somewhere in between 1000 grit abralon and 800 grit + polish, I have to believe there is a better reaction, and I'm a pessimist. 8>

Thanks for all the help,

--------------------
dR3w

"I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing, and it was everything I thought it could be. "

azguy · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2005, 03:43:34 PM »

This is just me, keep that in mind:

I use a 6 step method (Storm Track has a WONDERFUL explanation on his page) and if I apply polish, I apply with the sanding lines.

No matter which way you sand, 4 or 6 step, or apply polish, with or against the lines...IMO, the key is pressure. With sanding and polish, if to much pressure is applied, you're screwed....either way. It takes an old ball, a few times , to 'feel' the right amount of either before you will be able to do a good job. Just My Opinion.

I bought a ball at a yard sale, $1.00, I sanded, polished, resanded, it was a test ball. Dang if that old Crown Jewel shines and cuts through the oil ! I played with the cover so much, I'm sure it's not even legal any more ! but that's what it was for...Test !

It's not that hard, once you find the 'pressure' thing, and then you'll wonder why it took you so long to figure it out, ...been there...done that !

Good Luck and don't give up !
--------------------
AZ Guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com

Sleep is over rated.

Re-Evolution · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2005, 04:04:59 PM »

You should always use at least 4 steps when using abrasives to keep from making the ball out of round unless you are a genius and can calculate the time you should spend as you move the abrasive up and down because of the varied velocity of the ball as you move toward and away from the center of the ball.

You stated that 1000 grit parralel to the track was a bit to early. I suggest trying 1200 parralel as a next step and if that is to long then try using the perpendicular or bowtie method, or if still to early go to 1500 parralel if to long once again try the perpendicular or bowtie method. I will continue this process until I have either found the reaction I am seeking or I have also tried 2000, 2500, & 3000 grit which is the highest grit I have, then I start with a light polish over 1200 grit for 30 seconds 2 steps.

I rarely use polish unless I want extreme length for dry lanes or when I can't find that golden reaction with abrasives alone. Unpolished finishes are much easier to reproduce.
--------------------
STORM TRACK

www.Bowling-Info.com

BR.com's unofficial FAQ section

Edited on 7/27/2005 4:06 PM

Author Topic: Restoring the Out of Box Condition. (Read 2747 times)

dR3w

Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

charlest

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

dR3w

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

charlest

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

Re-Evolution

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

dR3w

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

azguy

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.

Re-Evolution

Re: Restoring the Out of Box Condition.