Post by: dougb on January 29, 2010, 12:56:35 AM
I'm curious what the difference is in ball reaction between putting polish on top of a rough surface as opposed to taking the surface up to a higher grit? For example, how would the same ball react at 500 polished vs. 2000 or 4000 with no polish on it?
Thanks
Post by: milorafferty on January 29, 2010, 10:02:11 AM
A 500 grit with polish will read the lane much earlier than 2000 or 4000 polished will. Using a low grit like 500 will give the ball more ability to handle oil. Even if you polish over it, the initial deep sanding cuts will still be there.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
Post by: on January 29, 2010, 10:47:10 AM
Yes. If you put polish on top of 4000 (and there's ANY oil on the lane) you might end up with a "dart".
For what it's worth, I usually go no higher than 1000-1500 before adding polish.
One other consideration is that polish and compound are often used interchangeably when they should not. Polish has no grit and won't change what the ball's surface is underneath.
Compounds have varying degrees/amounts of abrasives in them. As you use them you will "smooth out" the underlying grit somewhat. How much depends on which compound used, and how much, spinner speed, water usage, hand pressure used and other factors. Good luck as you learn. The possibilities are truly endless.
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: scotts33 on January 29, 2010, 10:58:37 AM
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Scott
Post by: dougb on January 29, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
quote:
Read this makes sense. http://www.bowl.com/news/xmlburner.jsp?xa=./webapps/ROOT/news/specsandcerts/data/111809EffectsofAdjustedSurfaces.xml
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Scott
This is great Scott. Thanks for posting. A few key things that I got from this:
"it is not recommended to apply a polish product to a bowling ball surface prepped below 2000 Abralon"
and
"polishes will increase the angularity of a ball. This more concave or angular ball path however is often more difficult for a bowler to line up to the pocket."
Post by: completebowler on January 29, 2010, 12:25:40 PM
quote:
Yes. If you put polish on top of 4000 (and there's ANY oil on the lane) you might end up with a "dart".
For what it's worth, I usually go no higher than 1000-1500 before adding polish.
One other consideration is that polish and compound are often used interchangeably when they should not. Polish has no grit and won't change what the ball's surface is underneath.
Compounds have varying degrees/amounts of abrasives in them. As you use them you will "smooth out" the underlying grit somewhat. How much depends on which compound used, and how much, spinner speed, water usage, hand pressure used and other factors. Good luck as you learn. The possibilities are truly endless.
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
This is slightly off....most polishes have abrasives in them. Aluminum silicate is usually the first ingredient listed.(or something similar) This causes the starting grit to be raised slightly when polishing. If you start with 500 grit it will end up around 600-800 grit teeth underneath.
Look for a polish with no abrasives added when you truly want to retain ra and rs values under a shine. Snake Oil by Valentino's Bowling Supply is the one I use.
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Post by: on January 29, 2010, 01:08:37 PM
Quote: "it is not recommended to apply a polish product to a bowling ball surface prepped below 2000 Abralon".
Oh really? I do it all the time. I have several that are 500 then polished and the ball is VERY aggressive. It does take a couple coats sometimes, but I guess to each his own.
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Quote: Look for a polish with no abrasives added when you truly want to retain ra and rs values under a shine. Snake Oil by Valentino's Bowling Supply is the one I use.
Thanks. No real argument here. I use Snake Oil quite often (among others).
USBC has their opinions based on their experience. I have mine based on working on over a thousand balls a year.
What works for me may not always work for you because we all bowl on different lane surfaces, with varying types and amounts of lane conditioner, as well as bowler styles.
Trial and error will be your friend (take some notes as to what works and when). You are only limited by your own imagination (or lack thereof). Good luck.
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: scotts33 on January 29, 2010, 01:24:58 PM
quote:
Quote: "it is not recommended to apply a polish product to a bowling ball surface prepped below 2000 Abralon".
Oh really? I do it all the time. I have several that are 500 then polished and the ball is VERY aggressive. It does take a couple coats sometimes, but I guess to each his own.
I have also but have since stopped per the suggestions of purduepaul. The data is there always hard to argue with scientific data.
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Scott
Post by: Brickguy221 on January 29, 2010, 01:31:26 PM
quote:
Quote: "it is not recommended to apply a polish product to a bowling ball surface prepped below 2000 Abralon".
Oh really? I do it all the time. I have several that are 500 then polished and the ball is VERY aggressive. It does take a couple coats sometimes, but I guess to each his own.
Like Lane, I do it all of the time also. I don't apply polish to anything above 1000 Grit......Works great for me...
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: lenstanles703 on January 29, 2010, 02:30:06 PM
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"We are all one"
Visionary test staff member
Post by: on January 29, 2010, 02:30:13 PM
Don't get me wrong, here. I respect the opinions that have been presented. And
I appreciate that there are differences of opinion here. There should be.
The point I'm making is that there are some things that work for the masses, but don't limit yourselves just because of a study (scientific data). The science of bowling will always change as the game and equipment evolves. Purdue Paul and the USBC are doing what they can to help us. It's like trying to hit a moving target, though.
I see a huge variety of bowlers who bowl on a wide variety of conditions. The bowlers I try to help aren't throwbots. They miss their "target" regularly.
Sometimes I guess wrong (I'm only human, just like the bowlers I'm trying to help). But many times I'm right when I try to match up bowler style, conditions, and ball surface. It may even take me a few tries, but I keep after it. Too many people have closed their minds prematurely.
There are just too many variables to limit your options just because someone says so, myself included. Please don't take offense by my post. None is intended.
I often quote an old song by Dave Mason: "There ain't no good guys, there ain't no bad guys, there's only you and me and we just disagree."
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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff
www.brunswickbowling.com
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: completebowler on January 29, 2010, 02:55:49 PM
I do this all the time and my question would be why do some balls come from the manufacturer at a lower grit then? If it is inconsistent UNDER polish it stands to reason 1000a box prep would be even more erratic?
Not arguing...just questioning the conclusion. Not to mention that like others I have had much success doing this.
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Post by: DON DRAPER on January 29, 2010, 08:45:27 PM
Post by: FBM357 on January 30, 2010, 07:49:49 PM
quote:
Read this makes sense. http://www.bowl.com/news/xmlburner.jsp?xa=./webapps/ROOT/news/specsandcerts/data/111809EffectsofAdjustedSurfaces.xml
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Scott
Insightful read! .. thanks Scott
Post by: dougb on February 02, 2010, 09:15:11 AM
Hi Doug,
I am glad you like the new spinner and the information in the manual. I have used that system to take some of the best bowlers in the world to the T.V. finals many times. After you figure it out it really does make sense and it works.
To answer your question…The more underlying surface you have before the polish is applied, the earlier the reaction will take place and the smoother and longer the hook phase will be.
Good luck with your bowling. If you need anything else just let me know – I will be happy to help you.
Thank you,
John Jameson
President
Innovative Bowling Products
250 N. Main St.
Jacobus, PA 17407
800-226-5891