Author Topic: Sanding a ball (Read 4395 times)

Dabalos · « **on:** October 08, 2009, 05:37:36 AM »

What would be the difference if I sanded a ball with 360 grit abralaon then at 500 then at 4000 grit as opposed to sanding it with 360 to 500, to 1000, to 2000 then to 4000?

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 08, 2009, 01:46:13 PM »

By going step by step, you smooth out the coarse grit scratches.
--------------------
Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Dabalos · « **Reply #2 on:** October 08, 2009, 01:50:11 PM »

would there be a difference in ball reaction?

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #3 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:14:20 PM »

If you go 360/500/1000/2000/4000, you are gradually removing the sanding lines and giving the ball an overall very smooth surface. However, by going from 360 to 500 then straight to 4000, you still leave deeper, rougher sanding lines on the ball, then smooth off only some of the edges. This kind of finish will perform better in oil, but still grab on the backend and turn. Basically, it combines the best aspects of a smooth finish (sharp backend) with some of the oil-handling capabilites of a rough finish.

J_w73 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:33:17 PM »

quote:
If you go 360/500/1000/2000/4000, you are gradually removing the sanding lines and giving the ball an overall very smooth surface. However, by going from 360 to 500 then straight to 4000, you still leave deeper, rougher sanding lines on the ball, then smooth off only some of the edges. This kind of finish will perform better in oil, but still grab on the backend and turn. Basically, it combines the best aspects of a smooth finish (sharp backend) with some of the oil-handling capabilites of a rough finish.

I think the 360/500 direct to 4000 is what alot of the manufacturers do.

I know if I take a ball up slowly from 360 to 4000 it will be like a marble compared to the 360 dirtectly to the 4000.. this seems to be like the OOB reaction... atleast on my widow pearl
--------------------
16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 205,PBA Xperience ave180

Joe Jr · « **Reply #5 on:** October 08, 2009, 02:37:25 PM »

If you go 500 then 4000 you would not actually be at a 4000 Grit surface., you'd probably be somewhere closer to 1000.
--------------------
My Vid
Just another hack with too much equipment.

lrtrees · « **Reply #6 on:** October 08, 2009, 03:19:28 PM »

And if charlest were to respond to this thread, I would certainly consider what he had to say. I'd be willing to say he dedicates a considerable amount of time to the subject and has a pretty good idea what he is talking about.

Sleepy, what did your response add to the thread?

Dabalos, from recent threads here, as J_w73 said, it would seem that many manufactures are doing something similar to this on many balls and because of the reaction of those balls Joe Jr's response also seems to be a very real possibility.

charlest · « **Reply #7 on:** October 08, 2009, 06:50:50 PM »

quote:
If you go 360/500/1000/2000/4000, you are gradually removing the sanding lines and giving the ball an overall very smooth surface. However, by going from 360 to 500 then straight to 4000, you still leave deeper, rougher sanding lines on the ball, then smooth off only some of the edges. This kind of finish will perform better in oil, but still grab on the backend and turn. Basically, it combines the best aspects of a smooth finish (sharp backend) with some of the oil-handling capabilites of a rough finish.

I don't believe the lane surface "sees" first the 4000 grit on the surface of the ball, then P500 grit "below" the P4000 grit smoothed lines. Nature does not "see" theoretically. Myabe Quantum physics sees waves, then particles. Nature see the surface's average. However the ball's surface was completed with the P500 grit pad and then the P4000 grit pad resulted in some amalgam or average grit level. I'd estimate somehwere between P1500 and P2000 grit. THAT is what the lane surface "sees" when the ball rolls/revs by. Based on the friction generated by the lane's surface meeting the ball's coverstock AT THAT AVERAGE GRIT LEVEL is what determines the ball's reaction as thrown by the bowler.

That is my guess-timate, for whatever it's worth.

Until I see some comparison, maybe with balls thrown by Thro-Bot, of balls at P500 grit, P1000 grit, P1500 grit, P500/P4000 grit and P2000 grit, I will reserve judgement. The result could be anything. I cannot say.

Til then, finish the ball at whatever you think will work for you. Throw it. Test it. If it works, good. If not, change it til it does work.

Theory is nice. But we have to live with what works. KISS!

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

lrtrees · « **Reply #8 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:16:02 PM »

I'm sorry Sleepy, after rereading your post's, I see that you did add something to the post.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 08, 2009, 07:29:00 PM »

Depending on how you did the 4000 grit after your 500 grit it wouldn't be much.

You have 500 grit which is fairly course for bowling balls, then sanded by 4000 grit which is super fine and depending on how long you sanded with 4000 grit you may get the ball to a surface of about 800 grit or so.

just a guess
--------------------
" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #10 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:30:58 AM »

quote:
quote:
If you go 360/500/1000/2000/4000, you are gradually removing the sanding lines and giving the ball an overall very smooth surface. However, by going from 360 to 500 then straight to 4000, you still leave deeper, rougher sanding lines on the ball, then smooth off only some of the edges. This kind of finish will perform better in oil, but still grab on the backend and turn. Basically, it combines the best aspects of a smooth finish (sharp backend) with some of the oil-handling capabilites of a rough finish.

I don't believe the lane surface "sees" first the 4000 grit on the surface of the ball, then P500 grit "below" the P4000 grit smoothed lines. Nature does not "see" theoretically. Myabe Quantum physics sees waves, then particles. Nature see the surface's average. However the ball's surface was completed with the P500 grit pad and then the P4000 grit pad resulted in some amalgam or average grit level. I'd estimate somehwere between P1500 and P2000 grit. THAT is what the lane surface "sees" when the ball rolls/revs by. Based on the friction generated by the lane's surface meeting the ball's coverstock AT THAT AVERAGE GRIT LEVEL is what determines the ball's reaction as thrown by the bowler.

That is my guess-timate, for whatever it's worth.

Until I see some comparison, maybe with balls thrown by Thro-Bot, of balls at P500 grit, P1000 grit, P1500 grit, P500/P4000 grit and P2000 grit, I will reserve judgement. The result could be anything. I cannot say.

Til then, finish the ball at whatever you think will work for you. Throw it. Test it. If it works, good. If not, change it til it does work.

Theory is nice. But we have to live with what works. KISS!

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

My theory is that the deeper grooves left from the 500 help displace the oil and create some traction (similar to the treads on a tire displacing water), while the smoothed off surface from the 4000 gives the ball more contact area in the dry backend than you'd normally see with a low grit surface, so it has more grip in that part of the lane. Therefore it ends up similar to 2000 grit, but not quite the same. Based on how the ball reacts with a 500/4000 surface for me compared to any other grit, it's definately a different type of reaction, though not exactly earth-shatteringly different.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #11 on:** October 09, 2009, 08:47:26 AM »

quote:
My theory is that the deeper grooves left from the 500 help displace the oil and create some traction (similar to the treads on a tire displacing water), while the smoothed off surface from the 4000 gives the ball more contact area in the dry backend than you'd normally see with a low grit surface, so it has more grip in that part of the lane. Therefore it ends up similar to 2000 grit, but not quite the same. Based on how the ball reacts with a 500/4000 surface for me compared to any other grit, it's definately a different type of reaction, though not exactly earth-shatteringly different.

Agreed - but just in theory, as sad as it might sound. Since it is IMO very hard to reproduce a certain surface finish (pressure, time on the spinner, materials used etc.), the result may differ widely from bowler to bowler. just think about how complicated it is to regain an OOB finish that actually looks or reacts like the ball as it came out of the box!

But I suppose that there is actually a difference of the finsih when you take a look through the microscope, but unless you have clinically controlled conditions, it might actually be hard to tell the results reaction-wise.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

Author Topic: Sanding a ball (Read 4395 times)

Dabalos

Sanding a ball

kmanestor22

Re: Sanding a ball

Dabalos

Re: Sanding a ball

Dan Belcher

Re: Sanding a ball

J_w73

Re: Sanding a ball

Joe Jr

Re: Sanding a ball

lrtrees

Re: Sanding a ball

charlest

Re: Sanding a ball

lrtrees

Re: Sanding a ball

kidlost2000

Re: Sanding a ball

Dan Belcher

Re: Sanding a ball

dizzyfugu

Re: Sanding a ball