Author Topic: Sanding /polishing technique question (Read 11909 times)

Artimust · « **on:** August 24, 2014, 02:21:59 PM »

I have a ball spinner and still relatively new to doing my own balls and have a question. I always do 6 sides of the ball, for every grit. So if I do 360,500,1000...i got 6 sides for each one. Is this correct or overkill?

Artimust · « **Reply #16 on:** August 30, 2014, 06:35:15 PM »

Quote from: bowlersev on August 30, 2014, 07:26:12 AM

Quote from: Artimust on August 27, 2014, 07:00:23 PM
I just did an 500/2000 surface on a Versa-Max and will try it out tomorrow. Went one side with 500, flipped it over and did the other side. Turned it sideways and hit it 2000, turned it over and finished it. This is the technique that the INNOVATIVE uses in their How-To videos. Much, much, much faster and easier than hitting all 6 sides for each grit. Saves me money on pads, cleaners, and polishes too, and less wear and tear on the spinner since its not running as long. Now the test is tomorrow to see if this makes a difference or not on the lanes.
Do you guys use this technique as well? Did you try it and didn't like it and did something else?

How did it go? Was going to try it this way curious as to the results

It didn't work out as well as I hoped. Although at 2000,it was really early and had a difficult time getting a decent read. Maybe I'll try adding polish, or go 4 sides and polish. Got to play with it more.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 31, 2014, 09:47:27 PM »

If only doing 500/2000 I would suggest doing 4 sides of each grit minimum, or all six sides if you have 5 minutes of time. Id look at 500 for 30secs each side and 2000 for at least 20 secs each side. If you want more length just go longer with the 2000. 45-60 secs per side.

Artimust · « **Reply #18 on:** September 02, 2014, 12:27:25 AM »

I have been doing all 6 sides for every grit, and my original question was if doing that was overkill. Do you think its even necessary to do the low grits on all 6 sides, or just finish the final grit at 6 sides?

scotts33 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 02, 2014, 07:05:56 AM »

I tend to do less than most but do 4 sides. To me it's more about leaving peaks and valleys.

What I am doing factors in my bowling technique, lane topography, lane condition and Rg of ball. On Rg I tend to use higher Rg balls and more surface is allowed without burn out. ie. I use a RotoGrip Rumble 2.60 .030 on house patterns 500/2000 with a 13 at arrows to 8 break point pin up over ring and may add a Motion hole this year and not see ball burn up If I tried this with a Track 505T 2.46 .046 a low Rg ball slightly stronger cover it probably would show possible burn up and hit like a marshmallow on that same trajectory with the same surface but on a higher volume pattern of more length the 505T would be the ticket or it would do much better at OOB 500, 1000, 2000, 400o with less surface. <---- On that I'd do 500 4 sides firm pressure and then 1000, 2000, and 4000 2 sides with less pressure.

It's my belief when you are doing surfaces of balls you have to know all the factors to get the correct ball motion and response.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #20 on:** September 02, 2014, 07:39:25 AM »

Scott 33,

So well said!

Regards,

Luckylefty

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #21 on:** September 02, 2014, 08:11:20 AM »

I do six sides every time. I have the time considering it is usually one or two balls at most. Weather just touching up one surface or doing layers at 30secs a side I have the time.

The other reason I do six every time is in bold below. How accurate it is I am not sure but if you have the time why not use it.

6 Sided Method
1. Mark a reference dot or line on the outside of the spinner bowl.
2. With the reference mark always toward you, place the ball in the spinner with the label of the bowling ball facing up.
3. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 180 degrees toward you, the label of the bowling ball will face down.
4. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 90 degrees away from you, the label of the bowling ball will face you.
5. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 180 degrees away from you, the label of the bowlng ball will be away from you.
6. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 90 degrees to the right, the label will still be away from you.
7. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 180 degrees to the right, the label will still be away from you.

Note: All 6 sides the ball are now resurfaced evenly.

4 Sided Method
1. Mark a reference dot or line on the outside of the spinner bowl.
2. With the reference mark always toward you, place the ball in the spinner with the label of the bowling ball facing up.
3. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 180 degrees toward you, the label of the bowling ball will face down.
4. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 90 degrees to the right, the label will still be away from you.
5. With the reference mark facing you, rotate the ball 180 degrees to the right, the label will still be away from you.

This 4 sided method should only be used for cleaning and other non-surface altering projects, as 2 "sides" of the ball are not covered.
Note: Using the 4 sided method for surface alterations will eventually leave a ball out of round

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 02, 2014, 03:03:18 PM »

The 4 sided method and the 6 sided method will both eventually get a ball out round. The 4 sided method maybe just a little sooner.

A lot of that would depend on just how you did it. How the pads are held and just how much surface your removing.

If you holding the pads/paper just by themselves with your hands, it would happen faster. Because your hand doesn't spread the pressure out evenly across the ball surface.

You'll also tend to develop flat spots around the holes even if your careful, do to how the pads run over the holes.

If your using a CAB style holder, the ball will stay rounder because your distributing the pressure more evenly across the ball and they run over the holes better.

You can do the 4 sided method and still all do 6 sides.

Example:
First grit you do sides 1-2, 3-4
Second grit you do sides 5-6, 1-2
third grit you do 3-4, 5-6
fourth grit your back to sides 1-2, 3-4

To me you do the 6 sided method for "Resurfacing" a ball
(Resurfacing is removing all the physical defects and returning a ball to a like new state.)
Here your removing lots of material and could bring the ball out of round fast, so the 6 sided method is best.

The 4 sided method is best for "Refinishing" like touching up the surface or making basic surface adjustments. Because your not removing large amounts of material.

Pretty much all factory recommendations for the factory surfaces, use the 4 sided method.

If you use a 6 sided method, you'll be altering the peaks and valleys that are trying to be created using the 4 sided method. So it may not produce the expected final surface.

charlest · « **Reply #23 on:** September 02, 2014, 04:39:36 PM »

Aloarjr810 and kidlost,

I've always used either 4 sides or 2 sides to refresh or change the surface of a ball. I only use 6 sides when doing a total resurface.

I can't say I've ever "seen" a ball get out-of-round, but then I don't have balls with 300 - 500 games on it.

Can you see a ball rolling or revving up oddly if you have caused it get out-of-round? Or can it only be measured with some special device?

Unless you've done several total resurfaces, I find it hard to understand how with using a spinner and the amount of pressure we (at least I) normal use that a ball could have so much surface removed that it would get out of round, especially with the use of the soft backing, foam rubber of the Abralon, Siaair and NEAT pads and CABs used to hold other abrasives.

I can see how when people used to use wet/dry sandpaper with no special backing and doing only 2 sides it could happen.

Please elaborate. Thanks.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #24 on:** September 02, 2014, 05:32:31 PM »

My point and thought process is to keep things as uniform as possible. I have the time for 6sides and thats what I will do. The end results to me look really good and roll great.

Typically I do not go more then three different surfaces for a ball. Usually I only do two surfaces. (Ex 360/1000, or 500/1000, or 500/2000 or maybe 500/2000/newspaper)

That limits my time per ball at 5-6minutes.

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2014, 09:46:27 PM »

Quote from: charlest on September 02, 2014, 04:39:36 PM

Aloarjr810 and kidlost,

I've always used either 4 sides or 2 sides to refresh or change the surface of a ball. I only use 6 sides when doing a total resurface.

I can't say I've ever "seen" a ball get out-of-round, but then I don't have balls with 300 - 500 games on it.

Can you see a ball rolling or revving up oddly if you have caused it get out-of-round? Or can it only be measured with some special device?

Unless you've done several total resurfaces, I find it hard to understand how with using a spinner and the amount of pressure we (at least I) normal use that a ball could have so much surface removed that it would get out of round, especially with the use of the soft backing, foam rubber of the Abralon, Siaair and NEAT pads and CABs used to hold other abrasives.

I can see how when people used to use wet/dry sandpaper with no special backing and doing only 2 sides it could happen.

Please elaborate. Thanks.

I gotta agree with Jeff here ....

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2014, 10:53:42 PM »

Quote from: charlest on September 02, 2014, 04:39:36 PM

Aloarjr810 and kidlost,

I've always used either 4 sides or 2 sides to refresh or change the surface of a ball. I only use 6 sides when doing a total resurface.

That's basically what I do.
6 sides for a full resurface.
4 sides for a Refresh/surface change.
2 sides for cleaning.

Quote

I can't say I've ever "seen" a ball get out-of-round, but then I don't have balls with 300 - 500 games on it.

In all the years I've been bowling and sanding balls, I've only seen one that was out of round years ago.

I don't remember if it was out of round because of sanding though.

Now flat spots are another story, I've seen a ton of those even on a brand new undrilled ball.

Quote

Can you see a ball rolling or revving up oddly if you have caused it get out-of-round?

The ball I saw I can't quite describe it, other than it didn't roll right and wasn't consistent. but that one was grossly out of round.

Quote

Or can it only be measured with some special device?

There actually is a machine for measuring ball roundness! The Ball roundness Gauge/Scale.

You can see it here in this video of the USBC ball approval process.

Quote

Unless you've done several total resurfaces, I find it hard to understand how with using a spinner and the amount of pressure we (at least I) normal use that a ball could have so much surface removed that it would get out of round, especially with the use of the soft backing, foam rubber of the Abralon, Siaair and NEAT pads and CABs used to hold other abrasives.

The out of roundness was more back in the days before the things like abralons. That's part of why they came up with CAB 's.

plus you had balls for a long time, which seen more full resurfacings, they stepped through every grit and took off a lot of surface. also inexperienced sanders would over do it.

That's why doing the 6 sides were important back then. With today's pads, cabs etc. you'd have to do basically like you said, just do the same 2 sides all the time

charlest · « **Reply #27 on:** September 03, 2014, 05:43:47 AM »

Thanks, Aloarjr810, for the detailed response.
I've seen that machine before. I wonder how often it is actually used outside of balls sent for approval to the USBC.

As you imply, caution is advised for beginners not to overdo it when sanding and spinning. Using common sense and a judicial application goes a long way towards getting consistent and reliable results.

charlest · « **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2014, 05:45:05 AM »

Quote from: kidlost2000 on September 02, 2014, 05:32:31 PM

My point and thought process is to keep things as uniform as possible. I have the time for 6sides and thats what I will do. The end results to me look really good and roll great.

Typically I do not go more then three different surfaces for a ball. Usually I only do two surfaces. (Ex 360/1000, or 500/1000, or 500/2000 or maybe 500/2000/newspaper)

That limits my time per ball at 5-6 minutes.

Thanks, kid.
I understand your attention to detail and consistency.

Artimust · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2014, 12:32:33 AM »

I went with 500, 4 sides, then applied factory polish on 6 sides. Went out today and the ball was buttery smooth, very predicable, nice back end. I think I'll stick with 4 minimum as the base grit, then finish with 6 with a finer grit or polish.

Author Topic: Sanding /polishing technique question (Read 11909 times)

Artimust

Sanding /polishing technique question

Artimust

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kidlost2000

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Artimust

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scotts33

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LuckyLefty

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kidlost2000

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Aloarjr810

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charlest

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kidlost2000

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Brickguy221

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Aloarjr810

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charlest

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