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Author Topic: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?  (Read 13972 times)

Ric Clint

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Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« on: June 24, 2003, 10:35:54 AM »
What are some of the reasons and benefits of polishing a ball up vs. sanding a ball "up"?

I recently tried an experiement and had 2 hook monsters sanded up just to see if they matched up with my style, and man... they both got good length and NO backend at all, they reminded me of a regular ol' spare ball! Now, polished up, these balls get good length and a bigger backend reaction!

So why did these balls lose their backend when I sanded them up? I figured by doing this, that it would give me length and a TON of backend, and also that these balls would cut through carrydown better, but that was not the case! These balls, when polished, cut through the carrydown alot better than when sanded up! Why???


Is this common or did I do something wrong?



Thanks!




 

HamPster

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2003, 02:34:02 AM »
Sanding up makes the ball lose all its energy early on.  Polishing a ball lets it start flaring and revving while it slides, so when it hits dry, it really takes off.  So naturally the hook monsters are going to be more even rolling, and the pearls are going to skid/snap.  Just like a car with wet tires or dry tires.  With dry tires on any normal road, they're going to have traction almost immediately.  But get some wet tires, and you'll be able to spin them forever, until you hit a patch of dry, then watch the car take off.  The polish allows the oil to help the ball get down the lane.  The sanded stuff just cuts right through the oil to the surface of the lane, taking the oil out of play.  Does that help?  I'm not sure I fully understand the logistics myself, I just follow what works.
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charlest

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2003, 09:44:26 AM »
Bob,

I think you're forgetting one major factor in polishes. Well, maybe you didn't but you did not mention it. The vast majority of polishes have some type of grit in them which does change the overall grit of the surface, in addition topolishing the ball. Thus, if you sand the ball to 800, and then polish it, the ball will no longer be at 800 grit, but will be much higher depending on the polish's internal grit level and how hard you polished the ball. It could wind up at 1000 grit polished or it could be as high as 3000 grit polished.

There are some polishes like Black Magic which claim to have no grit in them; they say they just put a shine on the call without changing the surface. How they do this, I cannot say. But almost all other polishes will change the grit.

Now, if you are careful, starting at 400 grit and then polishing the ball will get you more grab at the backend with greater hook at the backend and slightly earlier start to the hook, THAN if you sanded to 1500 grit, and then polished the ball. The same ball drilled the same, but sanded to 1500 grit should have greater length and less backend and less overall hook, BUT a lot depends on how the ball is polished.
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charlest

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2003, 11:17:07 AM »
Bob,

I've had some irregular experiences with polishes, as some have given odd results at times. At other times, they all work as advertised.

I liked Ebo's factory finish, but found it only works if the ball has bene sanded at 800 grit. Then it works perfectly.

I liked Black Magic until I tried to get a high polish on a ball; then it seemed to kill the hook, like automobile polish with silicones or whatever they have that clogs the pores of a resin ball and makes it into a urethane (in my opinion). So I am very careful how much Black Magic I use these days.

I use Some Storm polishes, and Finesse-It II, with variable pressure because I know these do change the surface. So I kind of cautiously eyeball the amount of polish/gloss I put on any ball.

I like Neo-Tac's Renew-it because it's so easy to use and it says it will take a ball up to 2500 grit; so everyone is aware it has some grit in it.


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10 In The Pit

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2003, 06:20:57 AM »
Yes, you will see a different ball read on the lanes between sanding up and polishing up.  When sanding up, you alter the grain of the coverstock, but the pores of the ball remain somewhat open.  Also, sanding up doesn't really round off the edges of the grain....think of it as sawteeth or threads, where the finer surface has less distance between the top of the tooth (or thread crown) versus the bottom of the tooth (or thread root...here I go again, getting technical on you).  Now polishing a ball tends to round off the sharp point of the tooth, and it tends to push some of the material down into the pores of the ball.  You still have an irregular surface, but the peaks and valleys (that were very distinct with the sawteeth) are now more rippled, with the tops and bottoms rounded off.  Basically, you could look at a sanded surface as /\/\/\/\/\, where a polished surface would be more like ~~~~~~~~~ (exaggerating the sizes somewhat on the characters here, but maybe you get the picture).  If you were to look at an oscilloscope display, the sanded surface would look like a "sawtooth" waveform, where the polished surface would resemble a "sine" waveform.....the sine waveform may be nearly as high as the sawtooth, but the sine waveform has rounded peaks and rounded valleys.

Since a sharp tooth like surface (sanded) generates more friction than a sine wave surface (polished), surface, the sanded surface is going to grab the lane in small increments.  The polished surface actually puts more surface area of the ball down onto the lane itself.  In oil, the sanded ball will cut through the oil and grab the lane, but the ball loses some of its energy while grabbing earlier on the lane....the polished ball hydroplanes in the oil.  On the dry, the sanded ball has already expended part of its energy of rotation, so there is less reaction on the backend.....this gives the sanded ball more of a continuous arc reaction on the lane.  A polished ball however has hydroplaned on the oil, and still has virtually all of the energy of rotation when it hits the backend.  When the polished ball catches dry backends, there is more contact patch between the ball and the lane surface, which gives a more violent reaction.

Basically, the analogy of the car racing tires does come very close to this.....wrinkle wall drag slicks hook up extremely hard on the dry asphalt, but they aren't worth a darn in water.  Treaded tires hook up better in water, but they lose part of their bite under heavier acceleration, due to less contact patch with the asphalt.

Anyway, maybe you get the idea.  A sanded ball still has more bite all the time, where a polished ball has less bite in oil, and more bite in the dry.  Polishing a ball rounds off the peaks and valleys.

star

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2003, 07:28:39 AM »
10 in the pit does it again.
That is one great post.
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DON DRAPER

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2003, 05:35:14 PM »
a ball that has a dull finish, and that can be anywhere from 80 grit to 5,000 grit wetsanded, burns energy all the way down the lane. a ball that is polished clears the heads easily and then releases the stored energy on the drier backend. both work and have their place depending upon the bowler and his style.

charlest

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Re: Sanding "up" vs. polishing "up"?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2003, 08:00:32 PM »
quote:
After reading Ebonite's info on polishes, the quiz they give says Matte finish polish would probably work best for me, any take on this? It definitely has lots of grit in it and seems to be between dulled and polished. thanks
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Don B


Remember their matte finish is only around 1200 grit. (Their Sand Blaster is around 400 grit.) You can get sandpaper that is much finer than this: 1500 and 2000 grit.
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