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Author Topic: surface prep  (Read 3560 times)

card79

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surface prep
« on: July 05, 2006, 01:33:56 AM »
I have used tons of different cleaner's and sanding method's(i.e. scotch brite's abralon sand paper) and many different polish's.  I love the scotch brite's I don't think I would change from them.  What cleaner's do you guys like and what is the best all in one line of polish's.  I have not found a particle polish I like at all.  I also haven't found a line of polish's for my reactive stuff that seem to give me a consistent repeatable finish.
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charlest

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2006, 10:16:13 AM »
Wow! what a can of worms you just opened!

I've been "playing" with surfaces quaite a lot the last 3+ years since I got my spinner. While I have tested every polish and liquid, I have tried a few.
 Oddly while my common sense tells me it does not matter, I have found more than a few polishes to apparently work best on the brand of ball for which it was developed. This goes completely against my practical side. Examples:

1. Ebonite's Factory polish work GREAT on Ebonite balls sanded to 800 grit, exactly like the instructions tell you. (I assume it also works on 4000 grit abralon cause that's what they do to the One.)

2. Track's Magic Shine works GREAT on top of/after an application of Track's Clean and Sheen and after a 600, 800 or 1000 grit sanding. Otherwise, I find it a little on the difficult side to apply and finish off neatly. (I could be doing it wrong.)

3. Brunswick's High Gloss polish works WONDERFULLY (I love it!) on Brunswick solid and pearl coverstocks, sanded anywhere from 400 grit all the way up to any Abralon grit, even 4000. I've also found it work well on many other brands of coverstocks. Only on Storm balls have I found to be not the best.

The BEST thing about it is it has no grit in it. The grit to which you sand it to before applying the polish, is the grit you get when you finish - you just get good but not unreasonable length. (Black Magic also says their Black Magic polish has no grit in it, but I stopped using it after my balls began showing reduced overall hook and backend, when I applied a fairly normal level of polish, approx 1500 grit. I believed it was clogging the ball's pores like car wax does. )

4. Legends polish is/appears to work on Legends balls with fairly little effort. It seems to have grit in it, but very little, compared to some others, like Storm's Xtra Shine and Ebonite's Factory finish. I tried it on a few other brands and while it generally works well, I think it is best used on Lanemasters/Legends brand balls. I just haven't got the good results on other brands that I get with using it on Lanemasters balls.

My absolutely favorite polish is Storm's Xtra Shine. It works on EVERY ball company's surface, particle and plain resin. I can get almost any level of shine I want, starting with virtually any level of grit or polish. I apply as much as I need for as long or as short to get where I want.

However, My favorite low level (if 1000 grit can be considered low level) polish is Track's Clean and Sheen. It gets the ball to about a 1000 grit polish, often called a "compound polish". If you start off with a ball, anywhere from 320 to 800 grit, C&S will get you a great intermediate level of shine halfway between a dull ball (say 1000 - 2000 grit) and a true high gloss polish.

Particle polishes:
I have tried very few of these, mostly because I find that sanding (using either ScotchBrite, sandpaper or Abralon) the ball first and then applying w regular bowling ball specific polish gets me the change I need every time. Remember that currently, except for Brunswick particle, most companies' pparticles are relatively soft. Even Brunswick says theirs can and will be affected by wet/dry silicon carbide sandpaper. Only on older Brunswick particle balls do I use Trizact. I even used Xtra Shine on Legends diamond particles and got the reaction I was looking for.

Regarding repeatable finishes:
My assumption was that, since we have no mechanism to measure the reflectivity index of balls, you need to get used to the degree of shine that your eyes see. I have tried to insure I start certain brands off at certain levels or degrees of grit and then apply the proper polish.
My guess: Don't forget that not only do coverstocks change but different cores and different drillings will also affect the final length you get after refinishing a ball. You may think it is different because you see a slightly different ball reaction. So maybe you believe the finish was not the same as your previous one. (???)

Cleaners:
I like
- Legends cleaner (comes free with the balls)
- Brunswick's Remove All
- Ultimate's Black Magic Rejuevenator (says it's for particles; I use it for everything.)

2nd to the above 3 is Neo-Tac's Liquid Nitro.

The best DEEP, oil-sucking cleaner(s) is(/are) Track's Clean and Dull and its replacement, Clean and Tacky. They require a specific regimen with 3 towels (apply, water removal and dry towel removal); so I only use them at home once a month or so or when required OR to begin a resurfacing job (apply it with a 220/280 sandpaper or a 320 grit Scotch-Brite pad).

FWIW I hate combination cleaner & polishes. If I want a ball cleaned, I do not want it polished. If I want it polished, I will have cleaned it first; then I will polish it. With cleaner/polishers, you never know what degree of shine you have applied. So I no longer use products like Neo-Tac's Renew-it.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."


Edited on 7/5/2006 10:15 AM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

card79

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2006, 11:18:20 AM »
Absolutely amazing post.  Thank you that was just what i was looking for.  You supported some of my opinions and some of my findings.  I just feel like I am jumping products so much nothing is ever the same.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.


charlest

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2006, 11:48:18 AM »
Thank you and good luck.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2006, 08:18:39 PM »
quote:
Charlest, top notch. Enjoyed the post.


Thank you.

Lest anyone think otherwise, what I wrote is far from the final word. It's just a summary of what I have found works for me, most of the time. I haven't tested everything and there are undoubtedly things I have left out, like liquids such as Neo-Tac's Control-It and Track's Delayed Reaction, both of which have slip agents in them. They add shine to balls AND reduce the backend, a very valuable commodity with today's balls. I have used both, judiciously (that is. cautiously).

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Laybzz74

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 08:30:06 PM »
I've been using Ultimate's Black Magic Rejuvenator for particles and Neo-Tac Liquid Nitro from my reactive stuff for the past 2 years ... I've had GREAT success with both to date; I spray a small amount of the ball and wipe it off with a clean terrycloth rag soaked in Orange Clean degreaser(which I keep in a large ziplock bag). I bought a good supply of both prior to stocking up on Legends cleaner when I started my "L/L" arsenal, so I was pleased to hear from charlest that they are good since I have about 10 bottles so far (along with their Factory Finish polish and the scotchbrite pads).
 BTW, TRACK Clean and Dull (or the latest version name) is the best for deep cleaning balls to removing surface oil and to draw oil out from the coverstock; I've had my pro shop do that on a few balls and the results are consistent and amazing !!!
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Edited on 7/5/2006 8:28 PM
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Brickguy221

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2006, 10:48:30 PM »
I'll vouch for Ebonite Factory polish. I also use 3M Finesse-It II and 3M Heavy Cut Super Duty Rubbing Compound.......For ball cleaners, I have found Black Magic Rejuvinator (white bottle/orange label) to work best for me followed by Neo-Tac's Liquid Nirto. Like Charlest, I use the Black Magic Rejuvinator on both Particle and Reactive cover balls. I use it after every bowling session before bagging my balls to take home. I have not tried the L/LM cleaner. And last, for deep cleaning, I use Tracks Clean & Dull on all balls (particle, reactive, pearl, etc.) and I use Track's Reaction Plus on my pearl balls before each bowling session. This gives the balls tact plus by doing this before each bowling session, I seldom ever have to repolish a pearl ball.

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Brick

Edited on 7/5/2006 10:45 PM
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azguy

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2006, 06:43:11 AM »
Hard to top charlest's post, great info and easy to understand.

After reading many posts in here, IMO, the one thing that works the best...clean the ball ! We all have read that this ball/cleaner works/doesn't work, but IMO, it all comes down to actually cleaning the ball.

That said, a couple years ago I was frustrated with several products and decided to work out my own cleaner. We have nasty belts/returns so I was getting belt marks on mine the my wife's balls. I found a cleaner that takes off those marks, doesn't hurt the covers ( we have a mixture of reactive and particles ) and no matter what product it was, at leagues, I could always get more black/belt marks off others' balls with my mixture. The point to this is, it doesn't have to be a "factory" cleaner, as long as there's nothing in it that is on the " do not use" list, IMO.

I will say, Track's Clean N Dull and the Clean N Tacky is the best at removing oils, IMO.

Polish, hard to beat Storm's Xtra Shine, as charlest has said. Or Diamond Gloss, for that "snotty marble" finish.

Nothing against any other companies' stuff, just those are the ones I have found to work the best for me. Between my wife and I we are Ebonite/Hammer owners and the Xtra Shine has worked well on her stuff, so far, so as I see, other companies' stuff can work on other balls. Read directions, follow them and Good Luck.
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mab

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2006, 03:30:15 PM »
I agree with the above posts that are suggesting the Track clean-n-dull it is the best cleaner for dull balls. I use the Storm cleaners on my polished balls. As for polishes it's hard to beat the consistant results you get with the Storm products either with a spinner or with out. as for abrasives I perfer the higher grit scotch brites and the lower grit arbalon pads due to the fact that they do not leave the "sanding lines" that the lower scotch brites do.
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jensm

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2006, 02:13:27 PM »
Another gold nugget from charlest. Thanks!

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jensm
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blockhater

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2006, 05:48:25 PM »
Fantastic post Charlest.

Although I agree, using Renew-It in its dual purpose role is not good, I do quite like the finish I get with it when applied to an already clean ball.

Some great ideas there that I will be sure to try.

One other piece of info I would like to add. I am a fan of Neo-Tac Hook-It for use as a final step for a dull coverstock. Sand to whichever grit you desire, then use Hook-It as directed and eliminate some of the nasty over-strong reaction you often get with freshly sanded cover. Only if you are looking for that extremely early grab should one use a sanded cover straight from the paper IMO.

charlest

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Re: surface prep
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2006, 06:15:15 PM »
quote:
Fantastic post Charlest.

Although I agree, using Renew-It in its dual purpose role is not good, I do quite like the finish I get with it when applied to an already clean ball.
Quote


Actually I liked it as a polish. The problem I have with it is "What is it?" If it polishes things to a 2000 grit shine/gloss, as it say it does, how can it not have grit in it? I fit has grit in it ho wcan it be legal to use DURING competition?

So my problem is "Is it animal, vegetable or mineral?" So to speak ...

{quote]
One other piece of info I would like to add. I am a fan of Neo-Tac Hook-It for use as a final step for a dull coverstock. Sand to whichever grit you desire, then use Hook-It as directed and eliminate some of the nasty over-strong reaction you often get with freshly sanded cover. Only if you are looking for that extremely early grab should one use a sanded cover straight from the paper IMO.


So you find that Hook-it, a cleaner, smooths out a sanded balls reaction?

I find it a strong cleaner, but I worry about its smell. It seems as if there are toxic chemicals in there that remind me of the smell of paint thinners and the like.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"None are so blind as those who will not see."