Author Topic: Thoughts on fianl surface preps... (Read 4334 times)

elky57 · « **on:** August 16, 2011, 01:46:46 PM »

what are your guy's go to surface prep?

The reason I asked is that I heard Norm Duke the other weekend saying he polishes everything right off the press.

I talked to my driller and he says no matter the ball he hits it at 500 then polished.

So I am interested in what yhou guys do. I have found thus far 500 then 1000 on every ball has been decent to me. But I wondered about hitting with polish as well to help with some carry issues especially when I pull a shot...if this will help me possibly.

Smallwood was telling me he is not a fan of polish. He has his own special finish he likes to use.

So all this has gotten me thinking...my ball speed is approx 15.5-16.5 mph and rev rate of 350ish im guessing. I was thinking of trying a more fluent finsh on all my equipment. like 500 then 1k abralon maybe polished? on everything...

I know companies design solids, pearls, hybrids and some polished and some not...but im curious how either polishing everything or taking polish off all the gear will give more consistent reactions etc... will I be benefiting from this possibly or killing a lot of ball potential.

thoughts? what do yo guys do?

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2011, 01:58:20 AM »

The only sound advice I'd give is: try it out and see what works for you. There are so many factors involved in ball reaction, surface is just one (a major one, though), and what works for one player or even ball must not work for the next.

As a pro I can understand that a basic surface makes sense: have an even basis for everything for direct comparison, learn what a ball can do, and maybe make changes from there. This is something I'd also do when I get to use and try a lot of new equipment.

Personally, I doubt that such a strategy works out for a "normal" player with a ball arsenal that covers a wider range of conditions. On a THS it won't hardly matter, but if you want to exploit a ball's potential and use it what it was designed for, a proper and individual surface prep is a must. There are even cases when a ball does not work at all with the wrong surface. Had this with my black Pure Hammer (got it polished before drilling for dry lanes, and the beast was only controllable after I took the surface to 1.500 grit sanded!) or with a Smash Zone (which I never got to work for me, whetever I tried. Probably poor match for my game).

So, back to the beginning: make trials. It is a good way to get to know your equipment, but IMHO do not limit yourself on a few surfaces. Even using polishes or rubbing compounds from different manufacturers can yield different results, there's no easy way to optimization.

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

« **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2011, 03:26:04 AM »

What works for one may not work for you. The reason is that we all have different games, and we all bowl on varying conditions. As was suggested, trial and error for your conditions will be the answer. You will also want to have a variety of surfaces on the variety of equipment you carry.

For my personal preference, I will usually have something around 2000 for fresh or heavier patterns, and something polished or maybe 4000 for playing outside or as the lanes transition or dry out.

Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Edited by notclay on 8/17/2011 at 3:25 AM

DON DRAPER · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2011, 03:48:38 AM »

Far be it for me to question Norm Duke as he's one of the all-time greats but for me it doesn't make sense to have the same surface on every ball in my arsenal. If I hit a condition that's very slick a ball thats 500 grit and polished will not react as good as a ball that's finished 1,000 Siaair pad and left dull. On the other hand if I hit a lane condition that's pretty dry 500 and polished is too much traction when a ball that's finished 4,000 Siaair pad and highly polished would work much better.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2011, 04:55:16 AM »

My take is similar to some of those already expressed.

While I like to see what the basic manufacturer's surface will do for a ball, many manufacturer's surfaces can be very hard to re-apply. So it is often better to apply your own finish to a ball, just so it can be repeated.

I also think it makes little or no sense to apply the same finish to every ball. If you're in the PBA, they usually see much more oil than your average league or tournament bowler. So it's more appropriate for Joe Bowler to apply 2 or 3 different base surfaces to their set of balls, based on the design of the ball and on which oil patterns or conditions, they intend to use them. After all, some control balls you want polished and some you may want at 2000 grit dull , with one or two at 4000 grit dull. Some skid/flip balls you want polished, some you may want at 4000 grit dill.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2011, 05:21:01 AM »

charlest wrote on 17.08.2011 4:55 AM:
While I like to see what the basic manufacturer's surface will do for a ball, many manufacturer's surfaces can be very hard to re-apply. So it is often better to apply your own finish to a ball, just so it can be repeated.

Yup, another very good argument for a self-made surface.Some industrial finishes are hard to replicate - I found Brunswick's Rough Buff OOB finish so far impossible for me to copy.

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

« **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2011, 06:25:49 AM »

For those who have had a difficult time with the Brunswick 220/Rough Buff finish, here's something to try:

Apply the Rough Buff compound directly onto a green scotch brite pad and work into the ball with a spinner. Then buff it off as you would a polish. I use plenty of water in the process, but have found this to be very close. If that's too dull for your taste, then try something less abrasive like a 500 pad, but the idea is the same.

In recent years Brunswick has gone to using the Sia Air pads and the Rough Buff, which seems easier to replicate, due to the less "cutting" with the new pads. The whole idea is to have the "teeth" under the "polishing" affect. I hope this makes sense. Give it a try.

Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2011, 06:41:52 AM »

He's not saying that Norm throws everything polished. That's just his starting point for fine-tuning the motion he wants to see. If it doesn't roll the way he wants it to after he's thrown it at his usual "favorite" surface prep, he can sand it to a different grit and leave it dull or apply polish over that grit as necessary. But it's good to know a basic finish that just seems to be really versatile for you that works on the vast majority of conditions on almost any ball. I like to knock the factory surface off any ball I get with a 500 pad, then go straight to 2000, and unless it's going to be a heavy oil ball, I'll apply a very light coat of polish by hand over top, not using a spinner because I don't want it really glossy. This sort of finish usually gives me good energy retention downlane but gives me enough traction that I don't have to worry about the ball squirting or getting uncontrollable. However, that doesn't mean that every ball I throw ends up with this surface. But that's a great benchmark for me, so I can adjust the surface up or down after seeing how it rolls at that finish.

LBHS1979 wrote on 8/17/2011 3:48 AM:Far be it for me to question Norm Duke as he's one of the all-time greats but for me it doesn't make sense to have the same surface on every ball in my arsenal. If I hit a condition that's very slick a ball thats 500 grit and polished will not react as good as a ball that's finished 1,000 Siaair pad and left dull. On the other hand if I hit a lane condition that's pretty dry 500 and polished is too much traction when a ball that's finished 4,000 Siaair pad and highly polished would work much better.

elky57 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2011, 08:39:31 AM »

this is part of why I ask these questions since oob is hard to replicate.

what I do so far is finish the ball 1 step below oob finish. for example a 2k oob i finish at 1k. but now i am trying to find that benchmark surface if you will, that I can base and tune a specific ball reaction off of.

I know a lot of trial ane error is involved especially since everyone has bowls on different conditions and bowling styles.

I just want to ensure I am going about tuning my arsenal in the correct manor. i know house shots dot really matter. but I have a couple big tournies coming up and just want to make sure im getting the most out of the ball and being prepared for the shots that will be put out.

i really apprciate the help.

its always a topic for debate i guess.

elky57 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2011, 08:39:39 AM »

this is part of why I ask these questions since oob is hard to replicate.

what I do so far is finish the ball 1 step below oob finish. for example a 2k oob i finish at 1k. but now i am trying to find that benchmark surface if you will, that I can base and tune a specific ball reaction off of.

I know a lot of trial ane error is involved especially since everyone has bowls on different conditions and bowling styles.

I just want to ensure I am going about tuning my arsenal in the correct manor. i know house shots dot really matter. but I have a couple big tournies coming up and just want to make sure im getting the most out of the ball and being prepared for the shots that will be put out.

i really apprciate the help.

its always a topic for debate i guess.

EFFEN 10 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2011, 05:13:45 PM »

charlest wrote on 8/17/2011 4:55 AM:

While I like to see what the basic manufacturer's surface will do for a ball, many manufacturer's surfaces can be very hard to re-apply. So it is often better to apply your own finish to a ball, just so it can be repeated.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

What I do is put MY version of the original factory finish on the ball before I ever roll it.This way , if I don't like the way it rolls,I adjust the surface from there.

The more I practice,the luckier I get.

Norm3v · « **Reply #11 on:** August 18, 2011, 07:43:57 AM »

Norm Duke likes everything he throws to go straight and pop a bit on the backend. If you notice he almost never throws anything higher than mid price Storm stuff on tv, and everything he throws is heavily polished. He is so accurate that he doesn't need the extra surface because he doesn't rely on the ball nearly as much as the rest of us out here to strike for him. I actually remember him using something like a Tropical Heat as his strike ball and using a Prodigy as his 10 pin spare ball lol. Bottom line, try to emulate his mechanics and philosophies, but dont emulate something that 99% of the rest of the bowling population in the world aren't skilled enough to do, that is be so dang accurate that the ball barely matters.

I am personally a fan of using any ball with the oob surface first due to the amount of r&d that goes into these balls to find the perfect reaction. From there take it to the best surface that brings down the most pins. It is difficult to get that original surface back on a ball, especially on polished balls. I like Storm's Step 2 (after the 500 grit application of course), but it never seems to get it exactly back to where it was before. I usually hit the ball with some Reacta Shine afterwards and that seems to do the trick. I'm not a huge fan of Xtra Shine a it seems to add too much skid and hard to predict its eventual grit level (says 3500 but sometimes seems like 5000). I do, however, love Snake Oil as it is very predictable on the type of reaction you will get from each different underlying grit level.

Like others have said, every ball is different and is going to take polishing differently as well. Experiment a ball at a time and see what you like and don't like. Just don't that polishing ball A is going to be the same as polishing ball B.

Author Topic: Thoughts on fianl surface preps... (Read 4334 times)

elky57

Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

dizzyfugu

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

DON DRAPER

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

charlest

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

dizzyfugu

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

Dan Belcher

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

elky57

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

elky57

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

EFFEN 10

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...

Norm3v

Re: Thoughts on fianl surface preps...