BallReviews

General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: louie on October 25, 2004, 02:51:40 PM

Title: 315 degree drilling
Post by: louie on October 25, 2004, 02:51:40 PM
This drilling intrigued me. I picked up a Phenom unleashed and had it drilled up with the pin next to ring finger and the mass bias way up high on my VAL. There is a weight hole on the cg to keep the statics legal. I've thrown the ball on two different lane conditions. Both house shots during open play. I can't get the dang thing to hook or hit! It's hooking much less than my Blue Sparkle Gryphon and it isn't hitting either. I thought it might be burning up so I polished it. Even worse. Lots of length with no backend. I still have to roll it on a fresh pattern, but the initial results are discouraging. I expected this to be a control drilling, but I didn't expect it to turn the Phenom Unleashed into a dry lane ball. Is this typical for this drill pattern.
Thanx!
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: The great one on October 25, 2004, 10:54:31 PM
see my vid of the freakazoid in the track forum.
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www.bowlersedgeproshop.com
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: thfonz98 on October 25, 2004, 10:57:56 PM
i threw one in my vids in the post your vids post in the misc section(my cg and pin are deeper into the palm though)....but im a hack but here's the layout....its kinda dark though

http://www.geocities.com/thfonz98/Picture.jpg
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Officially not a moderator

Edited on 10/25/2004 10:49 PM
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: dirtbikebowler on October 25, 2004, 11:12:20 PM
when i had my recharge at 315, pin was above the thumb cg belowthe ring and mb way out there, it didnt do a dang thing.

I think this woudl mostly be used for out of control lanes.
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Tom Kelleys Pro Shop
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: Re-Evolution on October 26, 2004, 12:13:20 AM
What is the Pin to CG distance?
Quote from Mario' Secrets at:
http://www.bowlingknowledge.com/tips/mario/mario_315degreelayout.htm
quote:
The final layout we would like to show you can only be used on a Pin-In ball (1" or less) that has the mass bias premarked.

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STORMIN1

Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: DP3 on October 26, 2004, 11:37:21 AM
I wish people would really stop saying you need a short pin with a pre marked mass bias for it to be effective.  That is not true at all.  I've tried a 315 drill in 4 different balls all with different pin distances and got great results.  As long as the static weights are legal it doesn't matter what kind of ball you're using.  I've tried it in a Stinger 2 Piece with a 2-3 pin and loved it, another Stinger 2 piece with a 1" pin, a Track Mojo with a 2" pin and a Rage with a 1-2 inch pin.  

One warning though, this drill is not for high trackers.  I would drill this for anyone with a PAP of more than 5 1/4, especially if they were rev challenged.
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-DP3
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: khamûl on October 26, 2004, 12:20:45 PM
Morale of the story, 315's are a myth in symmetrical equipment, and at best a gamble in strong asymmetricals - depending on the knowledge of the one making the voids in the ball.

Time for a complete plug...
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two of nine

Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: Strider on October 26, 2004, 01:05:16 PM
Care to expand on that thought khamûl?  I've heard a lot of posts on here about the 315 and thought about trying one for kicks.  I know they are best with an asymmetric core and short pin and low top weight.  What about a symmetric makes it a myth?  Why is it a gamble even with an asymmetric?  Why would the driller's knowledge make a difference?  As long as your PAP is known, isn't a 315 a 315?  I really would like more in depth information on this subject.
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Penn State Proud

Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: Burak Natal on October 26, 2004, 03:42:17 PM
quote:
Morale of the story, 315's are a myth in symmetrical equipment, and at best a gamble in strong asymmetricals - depending on the knowledge of the one making the voids in the ball.

Time for a complete plug...
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two of nine



khamûl, I'd like to hear more about that thought also.

I've once drilled Zone2000 Limited Edition with 315degree lay-out. A 1,5 inch pin out ball as far as I remember. I was very happy with that ball. Reaction was very predictable strong arc. I was using it to control the over under on medium conditions with a lot of dry outside. But that is my only experience with that drilling and it was a symmetric ball..

Burak
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: stanski on October 26, 2004, 04:28:32 PM
khamul is correct, there is very little difference in where you place the core in a symmetric ball. It is called symmetric for a reason! If you turn the core 300 degrees to the right, it will look almost identical (i say almost because to make a pin out the core must be off at least 1/64 of an inch) to a core that is 30 degrees to the right! Guys, all you have to do is visualize it. There is absolutely no reason to drill a symmetric ball 315, it will not make a noticeable difference to anyone!

Louie, i had the same reaction at first when i drilled a freak out like that. I took the surface down to 600 on the ball and it became a great control ball for medium conditions. Lots of length with no backend should be expected from the 315, especially on strong mb cores. This ball will not be good on a house shot, however, it will bail you out when you throw on a tougher shot!
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stanski
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: louie on October 26, 2004, 04:37:45 PM
This was just under a 2 inch pin.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: dirtbikebowler on October 26, 2004, 04:40:52 PM
maybe that woud explain it? im a high tracker. 5 3/4 over 3/8 up
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Tom Kelleys Pro Shop
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: stanski on October 26, 2004, 05:10:08 PM
quote:
This was just under a 2 inch pin.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie



As long as its legal, the pin distance shouldnt make a whole lot of difference. I remember i couldnt understand at first why my freak out wasnt carrying, but once i got on a lighter tougher condition, i was thankful i had it.
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stanski
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: louie on October 26, 2004, 09:29:39 PM
When I come across some hooking lanes I'll try it again.
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Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: livespive on October 29, 2004, 04:08:44 PM
quote:
I wish people would really stop saying you need a short pin with a pre marked mass bias for it to be effective.  That is not true at all.  I've tried a 315 drill in 4 different balls all with different pin distances and got great results.  As long as the static weights are legal it doesn't matter what kind of ball you're using.  I've tried it in a Stinger 2 Piece with a 2-3 pin and loved it, another Stinger 2 piece with a 1" pin, a Track Mojo with a 2" pin and a Rage with a 1-2 inch pin.  

One warning though, this drill is not for high trackers.  I would drill this for anyone with a PAP of more than 5 1/4, especially if they were rev challenged.
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-DP3


I was wondering if you could do it on a ball with a longer pin.
So the only thing that the short pin does is make it easier to get the weights
down???
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
 Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: Jesse James on October 29, 2004, 04:53:46 PM
I have this drilling on a Bull Whip pearl. A 14#er which worked great on a fresh shot and a shot with carrydown. But whenever the track burnt up, it turned into a skid-flip nightmare! So I put the 315 degree drill on it. Gave me extra length, and a lot more control. Still is a good ball. I think the problem with the Phenom, is that your core is asymmetrical. So your driller would really have to be very aware of where your flip blocks are located in the ball before he drilled. It's a lot easier to make mistakes with these new asymmetrical core balls, than with symmetrical. If you go thru and look at a lot of reviews with, say the Morpheous core balls...they either love it, or hate it!! They say it's the bomb.....or it doesn't do squat.
   Me thinks that with these type balls, there are only a few ways to drill them and have them be effective. But...jut my two cents.
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: stanski on October 29, 2004, 05:32:09 PM
AGAIN IT IS POINTLESS TO DRILL A SYMMETRIC BALL 315!!! Listen, i'll try to explain this so maybe somebody on here understands this.

Alright, take a football, stick it on its tip on the ground with the seams facing you. Imagine that this is the core of a bowling ball. Ok, now imagine that the fingerholes are just below the tip of the football, and the thumbhole is a little ways down from this. The Tip of the football is the pin, some point on the seams is the cg. this would be a stacked drilling with the pin above the bridge.

Now, turn the football so that the seams face away from you. This would put the cg at about a 270 degree drilling. Does the core look or its relation to any part of the ball look any different whatsoever? NO IT DOESN'T! It is called symmetric for a reason, because if you put the cg anywhere on the ball, the core will not move a whole lot. The mass bias is so small that it makes very little difference where you put the non-marked mass bias on a symmetric ball.

Does this make sense to everyone on here? I don't know any better way to explain this, but symmetric balls are not affected a whole lot by cg placement, which is actually non-marked mb placement. So the 315 is a fallacy for symmetric balls, and hit or miss with mass bias balls! Please tell me if there is any way to explain this, but i really don't know how to say it any better than there is no purpose for drilling a symmetric ball 315!
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stanski
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: stanski on October 29, 2004, 05:33:20 PM
quote:
quote:
I wish people would really stop saying you need a short pin with a pre marked mass bias for it to be effective.  That is not true at all.  I've tried a 315 drill in 4 different balls all with different pin distances and got great results.  As long as the static weights are legal it doesn't matter what kind of ball you're using.  I've tried it in a Stinger 2 Piece with a 2-3 pin and loved it, another Stinger 2 piece with a 1" pin, a Track Mojo with a 2" pin and a Rage with a 1-2 inch pin.  

One warning though, this drill is not for high trackers.  I would drill this for anyone with a PAP of more than 5 1/4, especially if they were rev challenged.
--------------------
-DP3


I was wondering if you could do it on a ball with a longer pin.
So the only thing that the short pin does is make it easier to get the weights
down???
--------------------
Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
 Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com


Yes, for any drill pattern, the pin out distance does not matter except for making a ball legal.
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stanski
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: livespive on October 30, 2004, 09:24:01 AM
Thanks stanski


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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
 Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: stanski on October 30, 2004, 09:43:20 PM
yes no problem livespive, i hope my words have helped some people to better understand the 315, a very strange drilling in assymetrics and a myth in symmetrics. Actually livespive, you were the one that clued me into the 315 with your charcoal executioners about a year ago, and since then, i have had 2 assymetrics drilled 315, both with pin 4 inches from pap, one was a freak out, the other was a time zone. Time zone was eventually sold to a friend who absolutely loved the reaction of the ball (for almost a profit i might add), and freak out i still keep around for lighter funky patterns. I talked to my driller (Bill Tucker of Sunnybrook lanes in michigan) about the drilling and he is the one who explained most of what i now know about it. It was a little easier when he was explaining stuff, since he has weight blocks on hand to show things with.
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stanski
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: livespive on October 31, 2004, 05:06:35 PM
Yeah,

I remember talking to you about that.
From everything that I knew about it
it was used on a 0-1" pin, now that I
know it can be used on something else,
I don't have to sell my other executioners
to get 1" equipment.
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Eric T. Spivey, P.E.
 Visionary Test Staff Member
http://www.visionarybowling.com
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: ambi1 on November 04, 2004, 09:45:33 PM
guys correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to remember one of our more venerable bowlers posting on this ( I think it was Bob Hanson) and his comment was (to the best of my recollection.) this drilling takes away the head conditions, and it is still sensitive to release changes (people were claiming that it didn't matter too much how you released the ball).
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DARK BEER IT IS THEN!
Title: Re: 315 degree drilling
Post by: louie on November 05, 2004, 12:35:57 AM
I found that this drilling killed the backend reaction. I found it very sensitive to mistakes as the ball really goes where you throw it. A really accurate player would probaby love it as it would help them control a strong unpredictable backend. For most lane sprayers (myself included) it is not a good drill because it won't cover up your mistakes. You can really see the core trying to fight the cover at the breakpoint. It is a weird look.
--------------------

Why does everyone laugh when I bowl?


louie