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Author Topic: CGs/MB back towards the grip center. Whatever happened to those old label drill  (Read 20556 times)

LuckyLefty

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We all know, cg or mass bias out usually creates more midlane.  CG or MB stacked creates less.  Cg back towards thegrip center(correction) or  MB or under the thumb or in the track seems to create what used to be called lope or wait before the ball made it's move!

What is the relavance of this not as often used drilling in today's game?  Especially for bowlers with plenty of side roll.  Lope is a part of their roll already.

I am bowling in a center where drillings that create midlane just force me very deep.  I have 60 to 70 degree side roll, can cg back towards the grip center or MB under the Thumb work for me.  Traditionally they haven't but I think that certain conditions make it more likely it would work for me. 

Drilling gurus?

REgards,

Luckylefty
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 10:09:05 AM by LuckyLefty »
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

Rightycomplex

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Lefty,

Whats up man? Lol! I think your reading too much into the layout of symmetrics. If your axis rotation is affecting the ball that much then you need to weight the factors that are causing the reaction. Obviously the lanes and dry the whole way around so the ball of choice will be a low diff low end ball. If your getting around the ball to much, then drill the ball with more right lateral pitches (add an 1/8-1/4") to sit the ball more square in the palm so you come more up the back. And being left handed you dont really need the skid flip so i would lean more towards a solid low end like a manic if you wanted more hook or karma urethane if you wanted less. Placement of the CG will only matter to statics and weight hole placement. The ball is going to do what it is designed to do off of the bowlers stats. Pin placement will affect flare.
Now, if you layout 2 identical symms with the pin in the same spot and the cg in 2 different places, barring a flare increasing/decreasing weight hole, the balls will do the exact same thing give or take a board. If you do the opposite, putting the cg in the same place and changing the pin distance then you'll see a major difference in where and how much the ball reacts.
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scotts33

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Quote
I think your reading too much into the layout of symmetrics. If your axis rotation is affecting the ball that much then you need to weight the factors that are causing the reaction.

That's what I think too....I still say it's a technique issue rather than put a lot of effort and money into equipment fixes...I'd fix the axis rotation issue first. 

My guess is that the ball "fit" is an issue and only allows one type of release rather than multiple?  I have seen this time and again.  Fit only allows one way to get out of ball and maybe loose thumb so the use of death grip hang up and muscled arm swing.  Maybe yes maybe not but I tend to think it's more than than keep buying weak equipment.....though I shouldn't point fingers.   ;)
Scott

Rightycomplex

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http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6679&p=53014#p53014

Here is a link that was just posted yesterday in regarding positioning of the weight hole on symms and how they affect differential and flare. Great work by Triplicate to show how all five positions (one not having a hole affects these properties. Lefty, I think this will do you more good than trying to figure out how to position the cg on symms.
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LuckyLefty

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Some wonderful points above.  Funny and I appreciate the comments both Scott33 and RightyComplex.  Funny in that just yesterday I rotated pitches more right!

I liked the results.  I again note on this shot unless lofting over 6 feet over the foul line with good speed I haven't seen hardly a bowler over 30 degrees of axis rotation have any good results, but at 20 degrees from fluffers to revvers it likes fish in a barrel.

I will tell you I bowled with one of the best bowlers in the house the other day, 230 average and 30 degrees axis rotation.  He doesn't know what he is doing....pin about 3 3/4 and up cg next to the grip center...House drilling, everyone that tries it seems to be dramatically better than those with Mass Bias or CGs out.

I can fight um...but i have to say I've joined em!  A drilling that has very seldom worked for me....DRAMTATIC difference in pocket ownership for me!

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS I think the changes recommended for my game above, will be very beneficial for me!  I do appreciate it the learning process.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

scotts33

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I'll add even though for me I can lessen axis rotation I still maintain my tilt 17*.  The tilt part of the equation for me is what gives me better carry and ball match up, ball surface and lane surface/lane condition.  Being a lefty you see way less head blow up and head oil depletion and less carry down if anyone is using urethane/poly.  On the right side it is much more dramatic. 
Scott

Rightycomplex

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Well Lefty,

With 30 AR, they are getting the ball to roll heavier in the backend. You're getting around the ball more with 70 (i believe you mentioned) so its going to flip, so your going to cover more board and surface will be a premium. I just think an earlier rolling layout will a dead surface will yield better result because you want to get the ball to lay off.
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LuckyLefty

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Guys,

Alsways room for improvement.  While I continue to use my old dead Ti Messenger with a 4 X 5 drilling!  I really can move left with that thing(no midlane like the rest of the bowlers in the house! when they apply that drilling, hmmmm?)

I am working on less axis rotation, note pitches recommended above!  I also have been using a 1 3/4 X 5 Vibe, and will soon have a 2 X 2.

Regards,

Luckylefty

It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Guys,

I'm working on everything.  A better night last night with one good game one barely acceptable and one F up!

The positive I am seeing is I finally in my mind am ignoring what I am seeing in practice and on the right and treating the shot like a 35 foot wet dry!  Despite the fact they say they oil to 35 but buff to 40.

I started using the technique I read about on the Columbia website years ago and basically throwing 5 boards wide of the oil line (instead of throwing to the oil line at 10 throwing to 5 or 6) and I am also looking  long to 6.  Started a little strike party second game and then started 7 pinning to start 3rd.  Crowded left and looked firmly at the long 5 and finished out strong after a string of missed single pinners!

Looking around my garage for that plastic ball.

By the way....used one of my stronger balls with a strong Mass bias for nice results!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I've used this strategy on a 35 shot before and been the high lefty in a league that sent most of them home in the past.
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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Rightycomplex,

I also used a lightly polished 900 Global Favorite and if I had not had thumbhole exit issues on a few shots (new thumbinsert in that one).  I loved it's reaction playing the wet dry strategy I suggested above!

I believe it has quite similar specs as the Storm Manic...Right?

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Rightycomplex

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Rightycomplex,

I also used a lightly polished 900 Global Favorite and if I had not had thumbhole exit issues on a few shots (new thumbinsert in that one).  I loved it's reaction playing the wet dry strategy I suggested above!

I believe it has quite similar specs as the Storm Manic...Right?

REgards,

Luckylefty


Pretty spot on. Manic is a little stronger in core numbers. I think the favorite is going to be smoother and a bit more predictable but thats slight.

James C. Jones
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JohnP

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I am adding a link here that Scott33 sent me.

http://www.blueprintbowling.com/Blog/Posts/blueprint-testing-by-earl-and-supercats.aspx

This link does speak to the subject of different drillings but it does speak to the subject of how much a 60 to 70 degree axis rotation player adds to ball movement!!
Also the concept of effective rev rate based on axis tilt is interesting also.

The above concept of how much more movement one gets with a lot of side roll versus a small amount of side roll is quite dramatic.  Thsi is why I ask my question about throwbot and it's axis rotation for the cgnomadeh test referenced above.

I have recently done a bit of testing with some drillings that are symmetrics to verify some of my ideas.

Please anyone involved in the Brunswick tests above...axis rotation used?

Regards,

Luckylefty

purduepaul at bowlingchat.net was very involved in the ball motion studies.  Ask your question in the General Discussion forum under Mo & Friends and you may get answer (he's not on the boards very frequently).  --  JohnP 

LuckyLefty

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John P,

I'll give it a shot I think the answer could be interesting!

Anyone know how to make Youtube go to slow motion?

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

LuckyLefty

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On this pattern and solutions. 

I'm learning!  And enjoying the learning.

Every part of my game is having to be changed but I'm seeing some intermediate results.

Where my game loves oil and I spent a couple of years bowling in tournaments where it was FTL day!  I got nicely pretty proficient at it!

Now this center with it's Prodigy oil, Kegel stripping, and 35 feet of oil with buff out to 40 is in my opinion one of the most extreme wet/dry 35 feet shots I've seen.  Especially on the left!  Oh did I add they don't have oil for about 24 inches over the foul line.

SO, no more down on the foul line.  No more looking at the dots or arrows. In fact if I have seen a pattern look more like Cheetah as I have seen it on TV?  Not really!  Have I seen a pattern match up more difficult than this one for this revs dominant slow speed lefty with my high axis rotation?  Not really!

But all of sudden I am having some noticeable improvement.  Some from the guys right here! 

Steps taken  1. rotated pitched to the right a little over 1/8!  (Less axis rotation).
2.  Raised my eye focus to the white board running down next to 5(yes the 6 board).  3.  Extended my arm aggressively out to and throw the 6 board while standing 27 or 28. (result more speed and clearing the two foot no mans land desert).  4.  Taking a high pin, power house assymetric pearl and flinging it into that desert near the gutter at about 32 feet.  Result lots of hit, hold(in the dirt), and pin action at the pocket.

Surprises?  I am very surprised how strong a pearl I am using, and how powerful it's assymetric is leading to lots of hit! 

I note that the left side has this wet dry look with the "buff" area reacting like the Mojave.  I have thrown crossover spares into the righty " buff" area from 35 to 40 and note that after practice the hold in that area is unmistakeable and quite nice.

Where the lefties "hold" is in the dirt near the gutter(1 board right in the 36 foot mark of the pattern from 8 to 11 for a lefty is brooklyn plus sometimes MUCH!  For those not seeing this pattern aggressive brutal crossovers far from the headpin are common and funny!

Also, regarding the label drilling above.....seems very nice playing to the end of the pattern for righties  For Lefties 45 degree drill angle drillings with strong mass bias seem to work real well using the Columbia wet dry tip of 5 boards outside of the crown edge noted above.

When reading the description of the strategy of cheetah,,,,that is what I am doing!

While currently most of the telephone number scores are being shot by righties, I believe telephone number scores possible for a lefty that figures out how to play this pattern!  Which to my untrained eye moves like cheetah on the left!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS anyone like to describe their impression of Prodigy oil?


   

 

Here are my attemped changes
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana