I know nothing about finger and side weights... I just throw the ball. But I'm wanting to learn about this so I can better understand about finger and side weights in conjunction with certain drillings.

I really don't know how to ask the question that I'm wanting to ask, so let me explain my thoughts and maybe you can figure out what I'm trying to ask.

Keep in mind that this may not even make sense, but here goes...


QUESTION #1.) Say if a ball is drilled 5 x 4, is it possible that it could it have the same finger and side weight as a ball drilled 4 x 5?


QUESTION #2.) What is the MAIN CONCERN as far as ball reaction... the "drill pattern" or the "static weights"? Between the two, which is more important?


QUESTION #3.) When drilling a Brand New ball and say if you want the ball to get through the heads really clean, and then turn strongly... what do you do to accomplish this? Give it a strong drilling (like a 5 x 4)... or give it a ton of finger weight... or do you do BOTH? If so, how do you do both?


QUESTION #4.) Does the Original Starting TOP WEIGHT and PIN Placement goes into the equation I guess before you worry about drilling the ball up... correct?


QUESTION #5.) For instance - I've got about 40 degrees of Axis Rotation (kind of end over end, but not completely) and medium Axis Tilt... with slower speed and low revs... so as you can see, I need length (because of my slow speed... and I use alot of highly polished stuff to help get that length and store up everything for the backend) and all the help on the backend that I can get from a ball because of my style and lower revs generally do not equate to much backend at all.

So if I have a ball that's got a 1 7/8" PIN Placement and a Top Weight of 4 oz... if I wanted to set the ball up to get great length and have a SUPER Strong backend (the most backend possible)... how do I need to drill it and what kind of static weights does this ball need? I know that with it having 4 oz of Top Weight, that I probably can't kick the CG out too far right of grip center I guess? But how far right is too much? I know I would have to probably use a weight hole more than likely, and I'm fine with that. I'm just confused on all this! I don't understand this stuff at all.


QUESTION #6.) What is the legal limit on finger and side weight? I think just 1 oz for each or is it for both combined?


QUESTION #7.) What if I went with 1 oz finger and 1 oz positive side, what would that do? Is there any certain "combo" to get the kind of ball reaction that I'm looking for, for example: ... 1/2 oz positive side, 1/2 oz finger... 1/2 oz positive side, 1 oz finger... 1 oz positive side, 1/2 oz finger... etc...


QUESTION #8.) Somebody once told me that "side weight" determined the "midlane" and that "finger weight" determined the backend... is that true? If so, then would I need to go with a low amount of side weight like maybe 1/4 oz to "decrease" the reaction in the heads and midlane, and then load the finger weight up with like 1 oz to "increase" the backend... would that work?


QUESTION #9.) Do I need to place the CG at a certain distance from the GRIP CENTER? Like a certain measurement "above" and "right" from GRIP CENTER?



I talked to one driller at one of the bowling alley's I go to, and he said that what really mattered MOST was the drilling and NOT the static weights... he said that all you need is to choose a drilling (by "angling" the PIN, CG, and MB in a direction) that positions the WEIGHT BLOCK in the correct direction for a person's specific style, release, and Aixs Rotation and the Core/Weight Block would do all the work... anybody agree?



I don't even know if this making any sense, I'm just trying to figure this stuff out so that I'll know if future use when I drill out a new ball... my local proshop doesn't know his tale from a hole in a ground!

All my questions are probably confusing the professional ball drillers right now! Sorry for that!



Thanks!








Edited on 5/20/2004 4:57 PM

My reason for asking all this is because I've got 2 of the same exact ball (MASS CHAOS) drilled 2 different ways:

I've mentioned these 2 drills in other post before, but here it is again:

1.) drilled with PIN beside ring finger, CG 1/4" right of grip center, MB below and left of thumb by about 1" (in the track)

2.) drilled with PIN above ring finger, CG 1" right of grip center, MB about 1" right of thumb (in the strong position)


Well, the 1st one was the one that has the most snappiest backend for some reason... but everybody and every company's drillsheet says that the 2nd drilling should have been stronger than the 1st drilling... but that wasn't the case with the 2nd ball.

I can't figure out why this one hooks the most (a truely "unreal" snapping motion from a particle ball!)? I could almost use it on Oil patterns when nothing else in my bag hooked!


I just had both weighed up at a Pro Shop and here's the results:

The 1st one is drilled similar to 4 1/4" x 5 1/4" with the MB 1" left of thumb and has 3/8 oz Positive Side Weight... and 3/8 oz Finger Weight.

The 2nd one is drilled similar to 4 1/4" x 4 1/4" with the MB 1" right of thumb and has 3/4 oz Positive Side Weight... and 3/4 oz Finger Weight.


By looking at the drilling AND expecially the static weights... it looks like the 2nd Mass Chaos should be the bigger hooker of the two, but not the case. So the driller drilled the finger holes a little deeper to make the finger weight less which was 3/4 oz down to 1/2 oz... that didn't help, so we drilled fingers even deeper from 1/2 oz down to 1/4 oz, and that didn't help much either.


I'm thinking of e-mailing COLUMBIA and telling them about this and see if they'll take the ball back and inspect the ball and maybe replace this piece of junk.


But if not, I'm wanting to "pin-point" the reason for why the 1st ball went "against the grain" even though it had a weak drilling (or at least it's weak drilling by most people standards) so that when I drill future balls, I'll know how to best get the most backend reaction out of a drilling possible.






Edited on 5/21/2004 11:56 PM

Ric as to these questions, yeah what he said.

Tenpinitis gave great descriptions.

Now I am completely confused about ball two.  Your driller took out fingerweight in your second mass chaos to get MORE reaction?  Interesting.
This would tend to get the ball to go alittle earlier and smoother.

Yes more important in a mass bias ball than these finger sideweights etc would be coverstock, pin position and core orientation!

CG out will create a hook set and more of an smooth move.  The 4 X 5 1/2 for me always seems to stretch farther down the lane and create a corner and then a big move angular move at the back.

In my mind I think of the 4 X 5 as being almost in line with my track.  The 4 X 5 Ialmost think of the core is blocking or laying a litte sideways so it increases the early roll of my ball and ROUNDS off the hook.

Side and finger weights and weightholes are used to fine tune the reaction!

Also if you take a particle ball and hook set it there is a chance you could get a very early reaction that takes out almost any reaction at back.

I have found that ending top weight makes a big difference in reaction for me.

2 ounces gives me a lot of move and a 0 top weight ball (after drilling is often very smooth, especially with a hook set drilling).

I suggest on ball two you check your final top weight.  (also what is pin out)
Big pin outs give me more move.  If low or negative fill up bottom of fingers.
Weaken surface a little.  And lastly check sideweight and add a reaction enhancing weighthole if still needed after above.  Either 31/31 angled out 1/2 inch(right)on the grip center cg val intersection.  Or one straight in at 6 3/4 from grip center on same line!

Usually most balls can pop!!!  Unless surface dead or top weight not there!

REgards,

Luckylefty

Ball surface = 60-70 percent of the reaction, drilling 35-40 percent of the reaction, and static weights play about 0-5 percent of the reaction.  With the dynamics of ball cores nowadays, the static weights really are obsolete, needing only to be within the 1 ounce limit set by ABC.  So, to answer your question, stop worrying about static weights, and get yourself someone to watch your actual ball roll, as 40 degrees of axis rotation or tilt is hardly end over end roll.  Then, find a ball that stores the kind of energy you're looking for, and drill it somewhere between 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 ping to PAP, and a 45-75 degree mass placement, or 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 cg to PAP placement, whichever layout method you like to use.  I think doing this will get you much closer to what you're looking for than you are at the moment.  Hope this helps :0