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Author Topic: Adjustable ball  (Read 7234 times)

lefty50

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Adjustable ball
« on: August 17, 2004, 05:02:43 AM »
None of the drillers in my area have a adjustable ball. Of course, none are any good either. There seems to be a correlation....  

Any ideas on where I can buy one and approx cost?
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Pinbuster

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2004, 01:35:23 PM »
The good ones are about $1000 new (which is one of the reasons why so few proshops own them). Jayhawk makes a good one.  

I don't know about used probably $600 to $800.

You would probably have to look at a proshop and/or bowling alley going out of business. You might find one in the classifieds of the Bowlers journal.
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Goof1073

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2004, 01:51:36 PM »
You don't honestly need an adjustable ball to lay out a person's grip.  A pro shop person can do just fine with the old stardard pre-drilled ball with thumb inserts or the span gauge.  These tools have been around for a long time for a good reason...they work.

The only variable is the person using them and their school of thoughts about properly fitting someone.  I find the later point to be most variable dependingo on who taught them or what certification program they went through.
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Pinbuster

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2004, 02:21:27 PM »
As I have said before I disagree. The only way for a bowler to feel their grip in action before drilling is to use the adjustable ball.

The adjustable ball gives you all the variables of span, hole sizes, thumb pitches, and finger pitches.

The customer can throw the ball to the proshop owner in the same manner as they would if they were bowling. The pro can see how the ball releases off the hand and the customer can feel how it comes off their hand.

The pro can also then demonstrate by changing pitches what happens when pitches are altered.

It is the best way to measure.

You can also use adjustable balls of various weight so that you can make a determination of what weight ball is correct using a properly fitted grip.
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Brickguy221

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2004, 02:54:57 PM »
quote:
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You don't honestly need an adjustable ball to lay out a person's grip. A pro shop person can do just fine with the old stardard pre-drilled ball with thumb inserts or the span gauge. These tools have been around for a long time for a good reason...they work.


Goof, I have to disagree with you. I spent years trying to get it right like you describe. I spent approx one hr. getting it right with an adjustable ball and ended up with the best fit I have ever had. Was even able to reduce my thumb size and can now throw the ball with a thumb that rubs on the sides of thumbhole. Previously with a thumb hole that tight, the ball would have gone 10' straight up in the air. I am forced to side with Pinbuster on this one.......

Also, I have JohnP to thank for leading me to a fitting ball and instructing me on getting all the measurements accurate right down to 1/64 of a inch or less, (This is the honest truth) and I have LuckyLefty to thank for the instructions he posted on 8-8-04 in the drilling column about getting the pitches right. It worked to perfection. I was surprised to find out how off my pitches have been all the years I have bowling. You don't realize how much even 1/16 this way or that way makes.

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JackDeJack

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2004, 04:24:07 PM »
My new driller spend about half hour to set up adjustable ball.
He set ball for may span ask how I feel thumb pressure (sides/forward/back)
He set thumb and ask about pressure on fingers if its equal on both.
Set fingers and back to thumb again.
And again, again, again.

After drilling no bevel needed, no tapes.
I took my new ball straight to play.


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No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!


Edited on 8/17/2004 4:33 PM
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Brickguy221

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2004, 04:43:21 PM »
quote:
After drilling no bevel needed, no tapes.
I took my new ball straight to play.



 

Jack, I did likewise. No sanding, no tape, no bevel, etc. Took ball straight to lanes and bowled with it as I had always used that ball with no adjustments whatso ever.

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JackDeJack

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2004, 04:54:09 PM »
My mates just call to pro, order, receive ball just before tournament.

PROBLEMS, ADDITIONAL MEASURMENTS, ADJUSTMENTS ????

NO NO NO !!!

JUST LIKE FROM XEROX - or what you have in office.

LINK FOR YOU !!! http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Products/Measuring_Equip.html
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No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!


Edited on 8/17/2004 4:49 PM
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Pinbuster

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2004, 08:23:56 PM »
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JackDeJack

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2004, 02:47:15 AM »
Problem is some proshops are using adjustable ball just to measure your span.
Or they are use it wrong way.

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No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!
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Pinbuster

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #10 on: August 18, 2004, 09:15:32 AM »
In my opinion many do not use the adjustable ball to their full advantage.

The first thing the pro should do is to fit your fingers and thumb and then put those sized holes in the appropriate holders. Then they should adjust the span until it is correct for each finger.

Then they should set the thumb pitches. By asking questions about the bowlers tendencies (dropping, sticking, etc), whether they bowl better setting the ball down early or late, and looking at the thumb for any signs of wear or injury.  

The pro then has the customer pick up the ball and have them throw it to them in the air and the pro catches it. This does two things. The customer gets to feel the grip and pitches in action and the pro gets the see the release.

Adjustments are made to pitches if needed and repeat the throwing process until both the customer and the pro are satisfied with the fit.
 
 That is how we did it. Sometimes we would put a bad pitch in just to show the customer what would happen. Say the measured out to have ¼ reverse with 1/8 right pitch. We might put ½ forward in the ball to show them how they would hang on the thumb even though we didn’t change the thumb size.

Once you get the routine down you could measure someone in 15 minutes and get the pitch down right the first time almost every time.

Sometimes you get fooled. Bowlers who thumbs shrink and sometimes their timing changes so much when then take a full approach it can mess up the pitches needed some but over 95% of the time you get it right.

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lefty50

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2004, 11:29:19 AM »
I see this thread has taken on a new life, but still a good discussion. I really wish they would use fitting balls here, but they are nowhere to be found. Seems like such an obvious thing....

Hmm, $200 ball purchase, total guess on layout, with everyone having a different opinion, and no one being able to let the customer try it out before buying... Alterations? $20 to $40 each attempt.
Could you sell ANYTHING this way?
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Brickguy221

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2004, 11:45:08 AM »
Pinbuster is absolutely correct. People that go to pro shops that have a fitting ball, need to pay attention to what he has said here and make sure that they do everything Pinbuster describes. In addition they should use the checks on pitches as described by LuckyLefty on 8-8-04 in the drilling column on this site. See it at:

 http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=59894&ForumID=18&CategoryID=5


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Flip-Side-Wow

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2004, 10:54:49 AM »
Hi Guys,

This is my first post to this site. I'd like to chime in on the measuring ball topic, but first a little of my background. I am an IBPSIA trained pro shop owner and in a former life have extensive machining experience. I do my drilling on a Jayhawk Tri-oval mill. I also have the Jayhawk fitting ball and while it is a good tool, it shouldn't the only tool used in building someones grip. I initially use the BT Swoval for span determination and then "read the pitches" based on a number of factors I see with the customer's hand flexablity, thumb hinge, etc.  

There are positives as well as negatives to the fitting ball's usefulness. First the Negatives. The ball is mechanical, and all things mechanical have what I will call a certain degree of monkey motion. This motion could lead to an overall change of 1/32" in spans when the customer puts his hand in it. Secondly, the bridge is extremely wide especially with people who have smaller hole sizes. The third draw back It allows the customer to reject a fit not because of feeling improper but "different" from what he or she is used to. One other thing that stands out is all the hole inserts are on a 1/32" between sizes. Not being able to match up to the 1/64 drill bits sizes does have an affect on overall feel.  

As for the positives, the fitting ball definitely helps "selling" a grip change to some one who has had "this grip and pain in the hand for years". It also is very good at demonstrating gripping ability to the customer who's thinking about switching to fingertip. I also agree it eliminates some drilling attempts when fine tuning grips. If you are considering purchasing a Jayhawk fitting ball, be sure to also spring for a set of oval thumb inserts and an extra 31/32 hole insert. With two 31/32 inserts you can the install the customer's proper grip sizes into the holes.

Ironically, one of the best fitting tools I use is the customer's current equipment. I watch their hand action going in and out of the ball, ask questions, describe what they are feeling, good or bad, and the improvements to the grip, along with the reasons for these changes.
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Brickguy221

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Re: Adjustable ball
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2004, 12:23:55 PM »
quote:
Ironically, one of the best fitting tools I use is the customer's current equipment. I watch their hand action going in and out of the ball, ask questions, describe what they are feeling, good or bad, and the improvements to the grip, along with the reasons for these changes.
 


Flip Side, this is what the proshops have done to me the last 2-3 years. In plugging, redrilling, thumb slug each time, fingergrips, etc., I have probably spent at least $500 for this the last 2-3 years. One trip to the fitting ball 3-4 weeks ago cured the problem in one trip that $500 and 2-3 years couldn't cure.

 
quote:
This motion could lead to an overall change of 1/32" in spans when the customer puts his hand in it.


When the person grips the ball, this takes the motion out of it. (I call it , takes the loose play out of it) Then after the final decision has been made on the span, you take the motion out of the ball before measuring the span.

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