Warning ahead of time, this is a rather lengthy post.

I'm hoping someone can help me take the next step on analyzing a layout change. Please do not tell me to go see my local driller. I have two drillers who want to do  totally separate things to my layout, and it's become a problem. I am moving in my own direction based on information from the boards plus 50+ years of bowling, and am confident I'm moving in the right direction, largely going back to what I did previously. I need one more piece of information in order to get my game back where it should be.

Averaging 207 for age 59 is not bad, but I was averaging 212 last year. This year, after making changes to accommodate my changing hand and on the recommendation of my driller, I find myself extremely inconsistent on release, dropping just as easily from 250 to 160 every week. Clearly the ball is hanging on release. Combined with knee problems, it was a lousy year. But the knee is better now, and I need to get things squared up before going to Nationals.

With that as a baseline, I would like some additional help working through the following:

Current stats:
Left handed, 275 revs, 15.5 off the hand, PAP (presumed consistent and actually irrelevant for this particular discussion) 4-3/4 by 3/4 up, rotation 45-60 usually, tilt unknown at this moment...
Ball number one (my league ball):
Finger pitch 1/4 reverse ring, 1/8 reverse middle
Thumb pitch zero reverse 1/8 left (under)
Total span 4 5/8 ring, 4 9/16 middle
Ball number 1 uses an IT
Ball number two (test ball):
Finger pitch 3/8 reverse ring, 1/4 reverse middle
Thumb pitch 3/16 reverse (away)
zero lateral thumb pitch
Total span 4 9/16 ring, 4 1/2 middle
Ball #2 uses a slug right now until I get everything locked in...

I should add here that in both cases I have 15/16 left lateral finger pitch in the ring, and 1/8 left middle. Yes, the 15/16 is really odd, but I've cracked my knuckles for years and anything less rubs...

Test results...

With ball number two I am noticeably cleaner on release. I can feel the pads of my fingers better, and revs are a little better, but not a lot.
Here's the problem...
With ball number two having additional pitch away from center in both directions I would anticipate that my hand would feel a little more flat against the ball. However, I find that when I insert my hand into the ball I can actually feel and see my hand "stand up" on the ridge (the bony part of fingers at the base of the hand) compared to ball #1, and the base of my thumb hurts after bowling. If I look at the way my hand moves mechanically I would anticipate that the opposite would have been true, unless of course part of the reason is that your hand is inverted while bowling. First game out of the box with the test ball was 255, with one miss due to brain fart. Felt good.

The quandary is what to do next. I do not want to add much more reverse. I've never gone more than 1/4 any time in my life. I feel like I should add more away pitch laterally, but I am unable to determine if it is the totality of changes that is causing my thumb to hurt or whether I simply need to move my thumb back under toward the palm. Of course, there's always a chance keeping the thumb pitches where they are and changing span might help.

Probably the bottom line question is understanding the net effect of lateral thumb pitch, but I need to look at this holistically.
I hope that is sufficient information, if not please let me know. All thoughts appreciated.

I was afraid that was going to be an answer somebody would say. Understanding that it is difficult, I am pretty much just going back to what I used to use.  Perhaps if we can boil it down to the basic question, that would be even better. In general, what is the effect of the laterally going either toward the palm or away from the ball?

Rick, that is a piece of information I was unaware of, and may be the explanation. With the given (and again I am left-handed) that my fingers are currently ring finger 15/16 (due to knuckle problem) and middle finger 1/8, both left lateral pitch, it sounds to me like you are saying that zero lateral would hurt more than 1/8 left lateral since it is effectively starting to go in the opposite direction. That is exactly what I am experiencing. Therefore, if I have understood you correctly, my next move would be to reinstate 1/8 left lateral thumb pitch to see if it relieves the problem, correct? I understand there could be span issues and other considerations, but in general, just thinking about the thumb lateral pitch in relation to the fingers, it sounds like that would be the correct move....

I have never known a lefty to have both fingers left lateral or a righty to have both fingers to have right lateral.

I agree with Just, fingers and thumb often move laterally together for the same bowler.

I also agree with him, changing one variable is often best!  At a time to do a real scientific type test.

Regards,

Luckylefty
PS what does your "Coke bottle" test say about your lateral?  How cleanly does your "pickle" (thumb) go in to your "barrel" with the new 0 lateral setup?
PPS a shortened span with more reverses, pain under the flat of the thumb...my...my is bevel look dramatically less on the shorter span ball?

If you change both fingers to compensate they should lay more in align accordingly with your thumb...putting left in your thumb or towards your palm will slow your release and put more strain on your digits - fingers & thumb...you've said the release was good, leave the thumb alone and adjust the finger laterals...

I've never seen anyone throw a coke bottle down the lane

If you're are wanting an adjustment to compensate for the pain in your thumb as well as your hand notating flat in comparison I would lengthen the span slightly
You've added away in your fingers and your thumb which theoretically has shortened your span by relaxing the digits so go 1/16" longer so your hand may lay flatter
As far as the fingers laterals...if you had angles in your thumb that were in a similar direction as your finger laterals, if you've relaxed the thumb angle the finger laterals CAN go in a similar direction...just from my experience