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Author Topic: Any problems associated with...  (Read 4611 times)

kingpin268

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Any problems associated with...
« on: March 02, 2006, 10:31:28 AM »
Are they any drawbacks from having a narrow bridge? Besides being more prone to cracking, does it have any effect on the release? Just recently I made the switch to no finger tips inserts in my balls and have noticed that my bridge is now much narrower. Check this out:

Here's my previous bridge width:
Absolute Layout

Here's my current bridge width:
Trooper Layout

Notice the big difference? I dont mind the feel of it but would the narrower bridge try to keep my hand more under the ball with less rotation? That's how it seems. I have more trouble getting deeper, not necessarily because of the lessened revrate, but that I can't get the desired rotation as easy. With fingertips and the widened bridge, I have no trouble getting deeper and adding rotation as I move left. Has anyone else had this problem or could shed some light on the topic? Thanks.

P.S. On a side note, instead of making a whole new post, I have a pretty bad problem with my thumb. It seems that it gets real sore right over the middle joint (or the only joint) after as few a games as 4-5. Sometimes it's fine but it looks pretty bad. I have 1/8 reverse pitch in the thumb and I'm not 100% sure, but could that be a problem? I have trouble NOT squeezing the ball during the swing which also hinders a free armswing. Again, has anyone else had this problem? lol. I'm gonna see my proshop dude this Sat, and I'll discuss with him this but before I go, does anyone have any advice? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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Sawuser

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2006, 06:57:11 PM »
Kingpin, I feel the narrow bridge is an advantage. Being deep & not able to bring the ball back is probably more due to no rubber grips than a narrowed bridge.
Are you knuckling the ball? Is there a callous or knot on your knuckle. Need more info, but it could be span, large hole or too much reverse. Just my opinions!
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kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2006, 07:02:35 PM »
I tried to get a good pic of my thumb but to no avail. Yeah there's a pretty big callous or very tough skin there. Could a small span coupled with too much reverse have that effect? The thumb hole is not too large, I actually like it fairly snug which could be a factor. It just seems with a snug thumb hole I wouldn't have to grab it for fear of losing the ball. With a large hole, there's no way it'll stay on my hand.
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a_ak57

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2006, 07:07:15 PM »
The bridge width wouldn't be the cause, it's the fact the ball has no grips.  No grips make you come out much cleaner so if you get your revs by hitting up on the ball you'll notice a significant change.  As for the thumb, that definitely sounds like you are knuckling the ball.  If the hole is snug, I'd get your proshop guy to look at your pitch and bevel (bevel is often overlooked).
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kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2006, 07:19:12 PM »
What's so important about bevel? Isn't that just rounding over edges? Also what is knuckling the ball? Is that using the knuckle part of my thumb instead of the whole thing as a grip?
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Edited on 3/2/2006 8:09 PM

Loudstriker

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2006, 07:56:19 PM »
Wow, I never noticed how thin that bridge was and now that I think back to it, I can't remember being able to really rev up that ball like I could all your others that I've thrown.
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a_ak57

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2006, 08:04:13 PM »
quote:
What's so important about bevel? Isn't that just rounding over edges? Also what is knuckling the ball? Is that using the knuckle part of my thumb instead of the whole thing as a grip?
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Edited on 3/2/2006 8:09 PM

Bevel isn't just cosmetic.  If you have too much bevel, it will make the ball want to drop off your hand.  On this own it might not be horrible but combined with the wrong pitch and you have two things working against you.  As for knuckling the ball, that's when you bend your thumb inside the hole because of needing to grip it.  The characteristic of this, is forming a callous on top of the joint as you described.  This leads me to believe you need to take measures to make it so that you don't have to grip the ball, i.e adding forward pitch.

PS-  Out of curiosity, why did you switch to no grips?  FYI, that bridge isn't horribly narrow.  I've had some stuff drilled like that before (I don't use them) and didn't notice any difference.  Like I said, the difference is the simple fact that you will naturally get a cleaner release thereby not allowing you to hit on the ball, and as Saw said, your old grips had lifts on them giving you more foward pitch in the fingers.  So it's kind of a double whammy for not letting you get aggressive.  You said that you can't get around the side of the ball; that's likely due to the fact that your fingers are coming out much more quickly so you can't rotate your hand.
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JohnP

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2006, 08:57:07 PM »
It appears to me that your driller used the same bridge (the width of ball left between the raw holes) on each ball.  But you have to add the width of the side of both grips to get the bridge your fingers actually feel.  It looks like about 1/4" that your driller used, and the side of each grip looks like about 3/16" so that would make a total bridge of 5/8" with the grips.  --  JohnP

kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2006, 02:10:24 PM »
Well as for knuckling the ball, I can say I do do that.

a_ak57, as of lately, the inserts have been either too small, too big, snug, the works. Seems everytime I bowl I'm constantly fighting them even when I got fitted, they were perfect. I figured I'd get a cleaner release and hang a little less in the ball. I really do like the feel of it though. Not a lotta give in the hard surface. Yeah, so I think I gotta get some forward in my thumb hole.

THank you guys for all your advice. I really appreciate it.
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kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2006, 04:38:14 PM »
Alright here's an update. I talked with my proshop guy and he said more forward pitch might cause me to hang up and instead, suggested more reverse pitch and a tad bit longer span. My friend has this grip, or something very similar, and it feels great. Would anyone counter this idea?
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Sawuser

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2006, 01:13:24 PM »
Kingpin, seems to me if you are knuckling the ball(kinking your thumb) to hang onto it & not drop it or release too early, adding more reverse will only make the problem worse. You need to have the correct span/pitch combination so you can come out of the ball properly without knuckling or squeezing. You should be able to put your hand in the ball & swing it slightly without squeezing or knuckling & not have it fall off. Also it must release properly without hanging. You also stated he was going to increase your span slightly. Is it too short now? It probably won't hurt to try what he says, but my personal opinion is it's not going to solve your problem. Without knowing what your correct span actually should be, I could not give you an accurate assessment on what to do.
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kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2006, 02:37:51 PM »
Actually my span is very relaxed right now. I've thrown my friend's ball a few times and he has like 3/8 reverse and a longer span. And it felt really good over the course of a few shots. Whether it will hold up for a few games I've no idea. But I'm gonna trust what the guy says and hopefully it works. Otherwise, back to the drawing board and I will most definitely try forward.

Now what was it that one of you said? As you change pitches, you have to change your span? Going to more reverse, wouldn't you shorten your span? and Lengthen for more forward? Is that how it goes?
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kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2006, 02:56:45 PM »
I'm going to Palmer Trophy and Awards in Easton. The Ten Pin Pro shop inside.
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a_ak57

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2006, 02:59:51 PM »
You have it backwards.  If you lengthen the span, you need to add reverse to keep the feel the same.  Shorten it, add forward.  But this is dependent on if your only goal is to change span.  If you are going for a goal of pitch changes, that becomes the dominant factor.  If I remember right, Bill Taylor devised a system.  Starting out with a ball of a certain span and pitch (his example was 4.5" and 1/4" reverse), for every 1/4" increase in span you need to add 1/8" revese to keep the feel.  So according to this system, your hand is at the same angle of gripping if you have a 4.25" span with 0 pitch as opposed to a 5" span with 3/8" reverse, even though it sounds like the 5" span should be harder to grip because of the reverse.  Off of this kind of system is where you'd compare different pitches.  The reason I even bring this up is because you mentioned lengthening span and adding reverse.  If your driller follows the Bill Chart, then only effect you'd notice is the span difference.  If you wanted to have a pitch change you'd need to adjust further.

Other than that, I really can't comment.  I have no idea if your span is too short now, based on your descprition of your friend's longer spanned ball feeling better.  But to me, from your description of knuckling the ball, going with the goal of reverse would probably enhance the problem since reverse would want to make your thumb come out easier and likely make you grip harder.  Too bad there isn't a PJBT up your way soon otherwise we could talk further.  Otherwise your driller would know better.  There's two things you should do now:  if he has one of those adjustable pitch balls, get him to set some combos and throw it into a beanbag or something.  Or get an old ball you will never use and have him drill into in (Forget about plugging since you won't be using it) and test that out.  Either way, good luck.
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Edited on 3/5/2006 3:49 PM

kingpin268

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Re: Any problems associated with...
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2006, 03:17:46 PM »
Not sure if these pics will help any. But here's where my fingers lay on the ball.

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/6316005211.jpg&s=x10
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/6316005211.jpg&s=x10

There not really stretched. I think Jewl's (sp?) likes the stretched span but the younger guy relaxes them. My first ball I got drilled by Jewls and the span was massive. Had to get it redrilled. Kept falling off my hand.

Saw the Rack, do you recommend anyone else in the area?
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