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Author Topic: A couple layout questions  (Read 2319 times)

Redline

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A couple layout questions
« on: January 28, 2007, 03:49:36 PM »
Hello,

These are really just general questions that I've been wanting answers for.  I've been wanting to tinker around with layouts.  Rather than plug and re-drill my equipment for the sake of experimentation, I was hoping some answers could be provided here.

1.  On a strong assym ball with the MB in the strong position,  what would happen if you were to place an x-hole on the MB?

2.  That trick layout Tommy Jones used with the pin up high and mb over the thumb, what would that layout do in the hands of an avg. bowler with med revs/speed.  I wanted to try this layout, but several people have told me to NEVER place the MB above the thumb because you won't get any reaction.

Please pardon any ignorance on my part with these questions.  I have generally stuck with one or two layouts that have worked the best for me.  I am just trying to expand a bit.  Thanks for your time.
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YeahHossNV

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2007, 12:27:15 AM »
1. It depends on the shape of the core. If the mass bias is caused by a protrusion then you run the risk of reducing the asymmetry and increasing the differential.

For cores with flat spots or elliptical asymmetry when you drill into the MB you will increase the differential and the asymmetry.

2. Tommy has several trick layouts. The reason the MB is above the thumb is due to the pin placement. The trick layouts have the pin 5-1/2" from axis, and between 1-2" from the vertical axis line. So that puts the pin about 5-1/4 above and 3-1/8 to 4-1/8 to the right of the center of his grip. So even with a x-out blem, that still brings the mass bias above the thumb.

He uses those layouts because his rev rate is so high that is the only way to get the ball to store enough energy. Be careful these layouts don't work for everyone.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2007, 03:16:36 AM »
1: assuming you mean a 90° position from PAP, then a hole on the PSA would reduce thumb weight - the hole would end up somewhere close to the thumb hole. Additionally, hitting the core can have additional effects, but I do not think that it would affect the mass bia strength. Rmember: any ball has a PSA, even symmatraicl cores, due to the CG shift. It is just the question how strong the PSA "works", and how quick the rotating ball migrates towards it.

2: Yes, do NOT put the PSA on strong MB balls in your track. For a high tracker, this CAN end up with negative flare and funny ball reactions, rendering the orb ineffective. However, this must not be the case, it can work and yield a very controllable, tame ball reaction, IMHO well suited for lighter/short patterns to avoid over reactions.
Additionally, putting the MB/PSA above the thumb would mean a VERY high pin position above the fingers, which would give the ball almost infinite length. I guess that this would also screw up ball reaction to a minimum through delay.

Weird thing, I would not try this at home?
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DizzyFugu -   Reporting from Germany (Oct. '06)
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Grayson

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2007, 04:37:47 AM »
Hi just want to pop in and ask a question and then pop out again...

pop.....in

 a friend of mine has a Track "Machine" drilled with the MB-marker on his track and the ball is flush dead... it covers less board than my XXXL (the guy plays good... he can hook his storm tropical like nothing else...)

Can there be done nything to change this without filling and redrilling the hole thing?


and what is a PSA/ What stands the shortcut/synonym for?
....pop..... out
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Balls:
Lane#1 XXXL
Tsunami
and Carbide+
Saw 'Em Down!
Have fun and bowl well!

and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)

Edited on 1/29/2007 5:37 AM
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directdrill

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2007, 04:50:00 AM »
Grayson,

If I am not mistaken, PSA is an acronym for Preferred Spin Axis.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2007, 05:31:40 AM »
quote:
Grayson,

If I am not mistaken, PSA is an acronym for Preferred Spin Axis.
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Hook 'em Horns!


Correct, and effectively it is the same as the "mass bias" of a core in a ball, meaning the same.
Any ball has a PSA - you can measure it (or home in) if you draw a line 6 3/4" in length from the pin through the CG. This is, more or less, the axis through the ball it wants to rotate and stabilize once it is on the lane. If you have a PSA marker on the ball, it is better to use this for reference since it is mostly seen on strong MB balls, where the MB has a much stronger influence than the CG, even if the line of Pin to PSA deviates a little from the CG (which should be placed between them). Confusing, eh?

@Grayson: If your friend's a high tracker, than I'd suggest a full plugging of the ball. The whole weight distribution does not work for him.
I have seen the MB-in-track phenomenon on a friend's Zone Classic, and it went almost dead straight, hooking only by the side rotation he put into the ball. Hit was also very weak. Probably your friend became the victim of the MB position.
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DizzyFugu -   Reporting from Germany (Oct. '06)
"Put some make-up on your face
 Make this world a better place!"
Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
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Grayson

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Re: A couple layout questions
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2007, 06:15:16 AM »
quote:

@Grayson: If your friend's a high tracker, than I'd suggest a full plugging of the ball. The whole weight distribution does not work for him.
I have seen the MB-in-track phenomenon on a friend's Zone Classic, and it went almost dead straight, hooking only by the side rotation he put into the ball. Hit was also very weak. Probably your friend became the victim of the MB position.
--------------------

DizzyFugu -   Reporting from Germany (Oct. '06)
"Put some make-up on your face
 Make this world a better place!"
Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'


Doh....

So one could say it was the driller's fault?
--------------------
Balls:
Lane#1 XXXL
Tsunami
and Carbide+
Saw 'Em Down!
Have fun and bowl well!

and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)

Edited on 1/29/2007 7:14 AM
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