BallReviews
General Category => Drilling & Layouts => Topic started by: bigearv14 on June 16, 2016, 11:28:01 AM
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Just got an old Ravage VII. Huge mass bias, of course. I was reading the dual angle info and read that the pin to PAP distances of between 2 3/4" and 6 1/4" produce the most flare. That's a pretty big range.
My PAP is 5" over and 1" up. 18MPH, around 400 RPM. I don't come around the ball much. What P2P distance would you suggest for a good skid flip?
I recently drilled a Crux with a 6" P2P and the ball just rolled smooth. Never really made much of a turn.
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do you know your initial axis tilt Erv?
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do you know your initial axis tilt Erv?
I've never been officially measured, but I know I have been labeled a low tilt bowler, so I would guess it's very close to about 10*.
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Strong asymmetric cores retain tilt the closer you get to 2 3/4 or whatever the low end number is, I don't remember right now. Longer pin-pap distances like 6" will burn off tilt and be smoother.
Vice-versa when dealing with symmetric cores
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Strong asymmetric cores retain tilt the closer you get to 2 3/4 or whatever the low end number is, I don't remember right now. Longer pin-pap distances like 6" will burn off tilt and be smoother.
Vice-versa when dealing with symmetric cores
OK. That is what I was.looking for! One last question...most companies asymmetrical drill sheets have similar angles for their skid/flip layouts, but Radical and Morich have much shorter P2P (3 3/8") than others like Hammer (5 1/2"). What is the difference?
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Morich went out of business and the others didn't.
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Try putting the pin around 4.5 - 5" from yor pap and leaving your self an option for a weight hole down your val if needed. Likely will have to adjust the surface unless bowling on a lot of friction. The ball is very clean.
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i have similar release specs to you. 17.5mph off hand 395rpm and even lower tilt about 7*. my favorite skid flip layout is 60x4 1/2x40 for asymmetrics. its not extreme skid flip but clean enough to get down lane and make a flip downlane. if you want more extreme skid flip you can always shorten the pin length or increase the ratio of the angles. full disclosure i rarely see enough oil to use asymetric balls since they generally are high performance so i pretty much exclusively use them on long patterns. when i was able to use them on medium patterns in college bowling and they put out some volume i loved that layout for the ttransition and opening up the lane
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I went with 70x4.5"×30. Hopefully I get what I'm looking for. Honestly, I'm just wanting to learn. I will likely be drilling for friends and family for years and I want to make sure I'm as well-equipped as possible. Thank you all very much!
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Cheech,
When you said "increase ratio" of angles? I think you are referring to exactly what big Earv discussed. Going from say 60 to 40 to say 70 to 30? Is that right?
What does maintaining tilt longer do for a bowler, or bowling ball for reaction? Make the ball enter with more side roll in the final roll area?
Are there bowlers who have used the 3 3/8 pin to PAP and 70 degree drillings and found they really could be long on Assyms? On drier?
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS thank you...
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My stats are similar to yours. My favorite layout is 70 x 4.5 x 20. The last number is how quick the ball flips. the lower the number (10 is the lowest recommended) the quicker.
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Cheech,
When you said "increase ratio" of angles? I think you are referring to exactly what big Earv discussed. Going from say 60 to 40 to say 70 to 30? Is that right?
What does maintaining tilt longer do for a bowler, or bowling ball for reaction? Make the ball enter with more side roll in the final roll area?
Are there bowlers who have used the 3 3/8 pin to PAP and 70 degree drillings and found they really could be long on Assyms? On drier?
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS thank you...
you got it. increasing angle ratio is exactly what it sounds like.going from 50x50 (1:1) to 80x40 (2:1) while using the same pin length would make the higher ratio angles promote more skid/flip.
as far as the tilt question. since bowling balls stop hooking when axis tilt and axis rotation are both 0, maintaining tilt makes the core unstable and skid longer. when the ball starts to lose tilt and become more stable it starts to hook and when it has lost all tilt and rotation it rolls. so effectively maintaining tilt lengthens the skid phase and promotes more skid/flip
i have never used a pin that short on an asym core but there is no reason it wouldnt work assuming it matches up well with the bowler and conditions
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Ballreviews posters!
I think this is one of the best posts I've seen out here in years! Stocked with information!
Thanks for all the information, in each and every post above. I learned much! A reminder of how good Ballreviews was when it started and what it can still be!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Threw it tonight and got close to what I wanted. Good read and a very sharp breakpoint. Being an older pearl ball, it didn't have the overall hook I wanted, but I think on a newer ball, this pattern could definitely work for me. Thank you for all your help!
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Again just a great post!
I think the description of tilt and how quickly it is being burned off with short pins on symmetrics and with long pins on assymetrics is very helpful.
Specifically thank you to Both SV Star and to Cheech. I have this post saved for reference!
What about reverse angle configurations. Small drill angles and large Val angles. Smooth slurve?
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Again just a great post!
I think the description of tilt and how quickly it is being burned off with short pins on symmetrics and with long pins on assymetrics is very helpful.
Specifically thank you to Both SV Star and to Cheech. I have this post saved for reference!
What about reverse angle configurations. Small drill angles and large Val angles. Smooth slurve?
Regards,
Luckylefty
i have a an old vapor zone i have with a 35x4x65 layout on it that i use on short and what i see out of it is that it hooks early VERY smooth and rolls more forward rather than sideways if you know what i mean. great for playing the gutter or keeping your angles closed and controlling backend. even when i strengthen up my hand positive and really rip the cover off the ball is still super smooth and controlled. hitting power is sacrificed i feel like at times but the control is well worth it until it opens up
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I am thinking of trying something similar. How much headoil by the way?
Thanks Cheech!
Luckylefty